SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 333 - Jun/17/24

Ms. Michelle Ferreri (Peterborough—Kawartha, CPC)

Jun/17/24 11:32:42 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a wonderful honour to rise in the House of Commons to speak on behalf of the people of Peterborough—Kawartha and, of course, all the people across Canada who feel they do not have a voice. The bill we are talking about today is a private member's bill put forward by my friend and colleague, the member for Cumberland—Colchester, who is a doctor himself. He has seen the implications across this country of not just a health care crisis in access to primary care but also the consequences resulting from inflation, a cost of living crisis and, really, a downfall of leadership. These things are all connected to our mental health. The summary of Bill C-323 explains that the bill would amend the Excise Tax Act in order to exempt psychotherapy and mental health counselling services from the goods and services tax. Basically, right now, psychotherapists and mental health counsellors are the only ones who have to charge tax, HST. Members can imagine that, for people who do not have coverage, this extra tax that they have to pay out-of-pocket is a really big deal. When we look at people who cannot afford housing or food, this is impacting their mental health; now they cannot afford access to mental health and counselling services. My colleague, the member for Cariboo—Prince George, has dedicated a lot of his life's work to mental health. He was key in creating the 988 suicide helpline, a critical piece of legislation. It is very simple to use the helpline for suicide awareness. However, the member also amended the bill before us to include massage therapy, so registered massage therapists would not be excluded from this. It is interesting that, in Canada today, counselling therapists and psychotherapists are the only regulated mental health service providers that must remit tax on their work. I want to talk about this a bit because, many times, we hear people say that this is not political or partisan. However, every single thing in our lives is politics. There is a great saying: “If you do not want to get involved in politics, politics will do you.” However, we have seen a massive movement in the last nine years, quite frankly, where people would have otherwise said, “I'm not political, and I don't want to do that”, as Canadians are quite friendly, congenial people and do not like confrontation. However, when their lives become miserable and they suffer, they have to stand up, pay attention and get involved, which is what we have seen across this country. The incidence of mental health issues in our country has drastically increased. All we need to do is go outside and walk the streets. Substance abuse disorder is an illness. There is a reason somebody is using drugs or substances to mask their pain; they cannot manage the feelings, emotions or stress in their life. Do members know of the shocking stats in Canada? I will read some of these. We have 22 people a day who are dying of overdoses. However, this is not some socio-economic crisis of people who are lower income or something like that. I have people come into my office, moms and dads, whose kids come from loving, beautiful homes, but something happened. There is one story of a young boy in my riding who died of an overdose. His mom came to see me, and we talked about him. She said, “You know, things really changed for him when he started to use marijuana as a teenager.” She said, “The doctor said it to him so perfectly that when he used marijuana, he didn't have the same reaction as someone else, and he was basically allergic to it. Some people can have sugar; some people can't.” This was really profound to me, but the problem is that almost seven million Canadians do not have access to a doctor. They do not have access to somebody who can explain to them what is going on or give it to them in common terms. There are kids who are lost right now because of a combination of a whole bunch of factors. When parents are not okay, the kids are not okay. Parents are sitting around the dining room table, and they are stressed about trying to pay for housing, trying to afford groceries and every single thing. We have people who are making more than they have ever made in their life, and they are taxed to death. Now we have another tax coming in. It is a job-killing tax. In a doctor shortage crisis, It is going to pull back doctor retention and recruitment in this country even more. People need doctors to refer them to a specialist, and Canadians do not have access to that. What does that come down to? It comes down to more tax. This is an article from the Canadian Medical Association. It reads: Increasing the capital gains inclusion rate for corporations will create another barrier to retaining and recruiting physicians in a time when our health system and the providers within it are already under constant strain.... This not only undermines the well-being of health care professionals, it jeopardizes the stability of our struggling health care system. The risk of already over-stretched physicians leaving the profession or reducing their hours in response to heightened taxation is real. Dr. Kathleen Ross of the Canadian Medical Association went on to say that “incorporated doctors are unlike other businesses as the corporation is primarily used as a vehicle for retirement savings or parental and sick leaves.” In response to the Minister of Finance's comments about provincial governments, Dr. Ross said, “We do support remunerating physicians according to their expertise”; however, in her view, “pushing the issue onto other governments is not the right approach.” I am talking about that policy because it is all connected. Right now we have the lowest GDP per capita of any G7 country. That means people have never been poorer. How did that happen? There has been wasteful spending, but taxation used by the government is also a big piece of it. The Liberals and NDP have a coalition. It spends and spends. The government has to make up that money. This may be the hundredth time I will say this, but the government does not have money. It has our money. It has taxpayers' money. I will keep talking about that in the House of Commons. If the government spends too much of it, it has to make it back in revenue. The current private member's bill is saying that there has been enough taxation. Forty-six per cent of Canadians' paycheques are going toward taxes. That is unbelievable. One has to work until June to pay for the taxes in this country before one actually even starts making any money. This takes away one's motivation to go to work. Then there is this carbon tax in place. Conservatives have been saying for months that the tax should be axed; we know the carbon tax drives up the cost of every single thing in this country. Fuel is being taxed. We need fuel for everything. Farmers grow the food that has to be trucked to the grocery stores. The business owner has to raise their prices to cover those increased costs. The Liberals and NDP think that the carbon tax is the best thing for the environment, that everything is great and that they are doing a great job. The Parliamentary Budget Officer wrote a report on the economic analysis of the carbon tax; the report revealed that it is costing $30 billion more. That is almost $2,000 per Canadian family. They gagged the PBO. On May 14, the environment minister had his bureaucrat, his deputy minister, write a letter to the PBO, asking him not to release the report. Conservatives put on the pressure, and the report was released; everything we have said is confirmed. The government is taxing people into a mental health crisis. It is not compassionate. It is not pragmatic. Evil is what it is. It is irresponsible. The most compassionate thing a leader can do is make life affordable and give Canadians the autonomy to make decisions for their lives, to be able to provide for their family, to want to go to work, to have purpose and to feel proud and confident. This private member's bill is a very simple piece of legislation that removes the tax for psychotherapists, mental health counsellors and massage therapists to ensure that people can access the resources they need. We support it. We ask for the support of the House, and we hope it gets passed and Canadians can afford to live and improve their mental health.

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Taxpayers

The Speaker

Jun/17/24 11:42:44 a.m.
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The hon. member for Cumberland—Colchester has five minutes for his right of reply.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis (Cumberland—Colchester, CPC)

Jun/17/24 11:43:01 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I look at the piece of legislation really quite simply in the sense that a health care service is unfairly taxed; people suffer with its cost and with their mental health. Let us make it better. We cannot say it much more simply than that. It is not about the tax on diamonds or whatever else we have heard. We need to remove the tax on psychotherapy, counselling therapy services and, with the amendment, registered massage therapy services. I hope Canadians understand that it is that easy to do. It is within the purview of the federal government to modify the Income Tax Act and Excise Tax Act. It is well within the business of the House to do that. There are some complicating factors in the sense that, as mentioned, it was incorporated into the fall economic statement. This meant that the bill was sent to committee and returned in its original form. We believe the addition of registered massage therapy is a significant amendment and, therefore, the bill should be sent back to committee and re-examined from that perspective. From a Canadian's perspective, this is very important because, as my colleague from Peterborough—Kawartha said previously, there is a mental health crisis in the country at the current time. Canadians have significant unmet mental health needs, and they are not able to access those services in a timely fashion. Historically, such access would probably have started with a visit to a family physician's office. We now know from the Canadian Medical Association that about seven million Canadians do not have access to primary care. As that has traditionally been the way to access services, for those unable to access a family physician, it becomes exceedingly difficult to see a psychiatrist. Sadly, psychiatrists are also in very short supply in this country. Oftentimes, the family physician is also the gateway to psychology services, which are under the purview of provincial governments and funded therein. This means that people are now accessing private care, and private psychologists are exempt from this particular tax. We are very simply asking, as I mentioned previously, that private psychotherapy, counselling therapy and registered massage therapy services be exempt from the GST on their services as well. Did those of us on this side of the House vote against the fall economic statement? Yes, we did. Much to the chagrin of others in the House, it is the job of the opposition to oppose those things with which we do not agree. We sit on this side of the House to say that there are several things the government continues to do that have taken us down a significant financial pathway that is unsustainable. It is important for Canadians to hear over and over again that all of us are paying a share of the $1 billion a week just to service the debt that has been created. When we look at those things, I believe there is a common-sense voice on this side of the House that needs to say we do not agree with that spending. There are certain things that we need to look at carefully. The bill would allow the tax to be removed from those particular services. Given that, as I said previously, it is very important for Canadians with mental health issues to have access to services without tax associated with them. If we do the math, depending on where one lives, about every eighth session would be free. However, nothing is free. We all know that. We still pay for it; we would just not pay the tax. Therefore, people would get an extra session with the money they would normally have spent anyway. Let us remove the tax from psychotherapy, counselling therapy and registered massage therapy services.

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The Speaker

Jun/17/24 11:47:37 a.m.
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The question is on the amendment. If a member participating in person wishes that the amendment be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis

Jun/17/24 11:48:55 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to request a recorded division.

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The Speaker

Jun/17/24 11:48:58 a.m.
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Pursuant to Standing Order 98, the recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, June 19, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions. The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons is rising on a point of order.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Jun/17/24 11:49:18 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think you will find it the will of the House to suspend until Government Orders at 12 o'clock.

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The Speaker

Jun/17/24 11:49:31 a.m.
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The House will be suspended until 12 o'clock.

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Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Minister of Transport, Lib.)

Jun/17/24 12:01:19 p.m.
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moved: That, in relation to Bill C-69, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 16, 2024, not more than five further hours shall be allotted to the consideration at report stage and five hours shall be allotted to the consideration at third reading stage of the bill; and That, at the expiry of the five hours provided for the consideration at report stage and at the expiry of the five hours provided for the consideration at third reading stage of the said bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the bill then under consideration shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

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Consideration

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/17/24 12:02:34 p.m.
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Pursuant to Standing Order 67(1), there will now be a 30-minute question period. I invite hon. members who wish to ask questions to rise or to use the “raise hand” function so that the Chair has some idea of the number of members who wish to participate in this question period. Questions and comments, the hon. member for Battle River—Crowfoot.

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Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC)

Jun/17/24 12:03:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, here we are again with time allocation. After a disastrous budget rollout and spring session, instead of the Liberals listening to the feedback that I know Canadians are giving them about their budget, their economic mismanagement and their scandal-plagued affairs, they are slamming their budget down the throats of Canadians even though it is clear they are not buying what the Liberals are selling. I want to ask a very specific question. There are hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending allowances that have been granted through the Liberals' economic agenda. Can the minister articulate very clearly why they had to go beyond and increase the debt allowance and the debt borrowing capacity of this country, which far exceeds the spending proposed in this budget? Can she very clearly articulate why they are demanding so much cash when they are unable to account for where it is going?

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Hon. Filomena Tassi (Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario, Lib.)

Jun/17/24 12:04:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, let us be clear about what this budget is about. It is delivering for Canadians. The member refers to terms in this budget that I absolutely do not agree with. We know that Canadians are struggling, and our government is there to support them every step of the way. In this budget, we look at programs like affordable child care to get women back to work. Think of the contributions women are making to the workforce. Our government is making it easier for women to share their gifts and to participate to a fuller extent by providing them with affordable child care. There is a national school food program. I worked in education for 20 years. I can tell members that there is a disparity across the country with respect to the food programs taking place. Yes, some teachers are able to take the time, and they have the resources to do it, but there are schools where children are hungry. We know that when children are hungry, they are not at their best. Our government wants to support children so that when they go to school, they have full stomachs. That means the learning takes place at a higher level. They are now able to learn because their stomachs are full. The fact that they are all accessing this food means there is no stigma by providing this. There are 400,000 students who would benefit from this program. We want to provide dental care. Seniors have said to me that in their senior years, they have never had dental care. Now, with the dental care program, seniors would have access to dental care. Then, of course, there is pharmacare and housing. In all of these areas, there are supports that the government would give to Canadians because we know it is a challenging time. At the end of the day, members should think about how these supports would elevate Canadians. We are all better off, and we benefit when we all have an opportunity to succeed—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/17/24 12:07:05 p.m.
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Questions and comments, the hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Jun/17/24 12:07:10 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the minister has neglected to say that all of those things that are good things in the budget came as a result of NDP pressure. We had a government that did nothing for a number of years. We now have dental care, thanks to the NDP. We now have pharmacare moving through its last stages. We pushed the government to make up for that disastrous decision by the Liberal government, decades ago, to end the national housing program, and we are finally getting financing for affordable housing and getting national school lunches, all thanks to the NDP. The minister should be phrasing and adding “thanks to the NDP” for every one of those measures that it brought to the budget. What I do not understand is why Conservatives have fought so ferociously to oppose every one of those measures, including Conservatives who have seen thousands of their constituents step up already for the NDP dental care plan. It is the most successful new government program in decades, with over two million seniors already a part of it. Why are Conservatives blocking this important legislation?

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Oppose

Hon. Filomena Tassi

Jun/17/24 12:08:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am a person who has been very clear from the beginning of my time in office that positive politics works and that collaboration works. This is an example of working together to ensure that supports for Canadians have been delivered. Yes, I thank the NDP members for their support in helping us get these measures forward. It is with that support that we are going to get these items across the finish line. These are items which, on this side of the House, we have recognized as so very important for Canadians, whether it is housing, as I have said, or whether it is child care or the food program, and there are also opportunities to foster and to promote economic development, a file that is very close to my heart. This is a budget that demonstrates that we, as a government, believe in Canadians. We believe in the talent they possess. We want to give them the opportunity to flourish to their full potential. That is what this budget does.

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Mr. Blaine Calkins (Red Deer—Lacombe, CPC)

Jun/17/24 12:09:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1, Bill C-47, made numerous changes to the Food and Drugs Act, redefining what a therapeutic product is. We now see, in Bill C-69, that there are again further amendments to the Food and Drugs Act. There do not appear to be any appropriations in the budget whatsoever that actually require more spending for Health Canada or for the natural health directorate. I am wondering why the government is continuing to put major changes into how natural health products are governed and regulated in this country, through budget implementation acts, when there is no budget appropriation for it. Why are they doing this omnibus backdoor approach, instead of actually consulting with the industry, and leaving them blindsided by these budget changes?

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Hon. Filomena Tassi

Jun/17/24 12:10:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is interesting. Usually, we get criticized for too much consultation, and now we are getting criticized for not enough. In this budget, we have invested $200 billion in health care. We recognize the importance of providing affordable, good health care to Canadians. We are working with provinces and territories in order to ensure that this health care is provided, that there is access to doctors and that information is shared to help expedite treatment and care. In my own file, in economic development, we are making investments in projects like SOPHIE, the Southern Ontario Pharmaceutical and Health Innovation Ecosystem. These projects are moving health care forward so that we are investing in those research capabilities and also in the commercialization aspect. Health care is a top priority for the government. Our investments have demonstrated that. We are going to continue to deliver the health care Canadians need.

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Hon. Bardish Chagger (Waterloo, Lib.)

Jun/17/24 12:11:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the conversation that is taking place today, and it is always an honour and a privilege to represent the good people of the riding of Waterloo and to hear the comments made by colleagues on the other side. I will just remind the NDP members that it was their party that chose to bring down a Liberal government and that allowed former prime minister Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party to abolish Kyoto, to abolish Kelowna and to abolish early learning and child care education in this country. It is only appropriate that the NDP show up again to make sure that we have it available because it used to be available. It was their electoral expediency that saw them remain in the opposition benches, but it was Canadians who got hit. I will remind the Conservatives as well that it was the Conservatives who chose to lower the GST by 2%, which actually took a massive toll on the economics of the country. The Conservatives expected seniors to keep working until the age of 67 so that they could help recoup those costs. They said to seniors, who have already given so much, that they expect them to give more. They are now voting against the capital gains, and they are voting against this budget. What is in this budget that is so important to help Canadians, especially the most vulnerable, and to ensure that our country can succeed and that Canadians can do better?

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Hon. Filomena Tassi

Jun/17/24 12:12:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member mentioned seniors. We, as a government, and I, as the previous minister of seniors, have a passion to ensure that seniors are getting the support they need. Let us look at some of the measures, such as pharmacare, dental care and taking the GST off purpose-built rentals, which applies to seniors' residences as well. Let me be clear that we have advocated and worked for seniors, as we should, since 2015. I was honoured to serve as the first full minister of seniors in this country. Let us look at the measures that we have implemented. We doubled the new horizons for seniors program. Seniors from across the country have been in tears, telling me that the programs that were supported have changed their lives, including the social integration, being able to participate and rolling back the age of eligibility for pensions from 67 to 65. I ask seniors out there to listen to this, as that is two years of support that would have been taken out of their pockets from the ages of 65 to 67. They would not have received those pension supports. Not only did we roll it back so that they do receive it, we have increased the money on the GIS for those most vulnerable seniors, and that has raised hundreds of thousands of seniors out of poverty. In this budget, there is much for seniors. I am hoping that the official opposition has a change of heart, recognizes that, and actually puts into action the words that they say, such as compassion and understanding, for Canadians. That is exactly what this budget does.

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

Jun/17/24 12:14:45 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am really glad to hear the minister talk about seniors. I received an email from Patricia from Port Alberni. She sent it on Friday. She talked about saving $532 at her dentist on Friday. She said that not only did she save that money, but also that this would enable her to pay the property taxes. She thanked the NDP for sticking to its guns for a Canadian dental care plan. We are sticking to our guns. We know that the Liberals voted against a dental care plan. They voted against a pharmacare plan in the past. However, right now, we are making sure that we put Canadians heart and centre in dealing with combatting inflation and making sure that we expand our health care system. What do the Conservatives want to do? They want to take away Patricia's dental care plan. We know that. We know Conservative MPs all have a gold-plated dental care plan and pharmacare plan. What do they want to do? They want to take away Canadians' dental care plan. That is what the Conservatives want to do. They want to strip that from Canadians.

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