SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 337 - Sep/17/24

Mr. Richard Cannings (South Okanagan—West Kootenay, NDP)

Sep/17/24 12:25:10 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree with my colleague. I think it is ironic when the Conservatives try to talk about respect for the civil service when all they ever do is denigrate the civil service. They started this trend, as the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands just mentioned. Where is it going next? In the international trade committee, we are talking about the CBSA assessment and revenue management system, a new digital system, sort of like ArriveCAN on steroids, and it is being brought to us by Deloitte, not by the civil service. We are undercutting the CBSA again, and I am wondering if the member could spend some time talking about that trend.

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Mr. Brian Masse

Sep/17/24 12:25:57 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think my colleague knows the border better than anybody else I know in this chamber, having to deal with it from an economic and social perspective, and has shown that on a regular basis. Briefly, he is absolutely correct. What is not talked about enough is the exposure of our personal information that the Conservatives and the Liberals continue to do through this outsourcing that also goes global. We have little control over that. By doing it, they reward friends and there are higher prices, less accountability and more corruption.

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Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC)

Sep/17/24 12:26:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my friend and colleague, the hon. member for Brantford—Brant. I find it fascinating that the NDP member who just finished his speech claimed to not understand the context of a question that was very direct, which was whether the member and the NDP would support a motion of non-confidence, to put a line in the sand; the red line, I believe, is what they called it at the previous NDP convention, where NDP party members were not very happy with their leader and the direction they were going when it comes to propping up the Liberal government and the scandal, the corruption, the waste and the mismanagement that are happening. However, the member, when given a very clear opportunity to put on the record that he would vote non-confidence, refused to do so. The reason this fits so clearly in the debate, and I know my colleagues across the way certainly do not like how by-elections certainly do not seem to be their strength as of late, is that they seem to be terrified of hearing what Canadians have to say, of hearing that there is a desire for things like accountability. That is the crux of the issue we are discussing here today. The leader of the NDP, with great bravado, said he was tearing up the confidence and supply agreement, the coalition agreement that has defined the last two years of corruption that they have supported, yet when asked to put his money where his mouth is, he refused. The member likewise refused, just as weak and cowardly as his leader. We have before us GC Strategies—

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Sep/17/24 12:28:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will not sit here and be told I am a coward. I think that is unparliamentary and I would ask the member to retract it. I am actually being called a coward in the chamber, when I have fought with my constituents to get representation for Windsor West and say what I feel and they believe in the chamber. I will not be bullied by the member. I will not take it here in the chamber and I will not take it behind closed doors. I am not a coward. I have been accountable. What he is raising is not even germane to the actual motion the Conservatives have put forward. I can tell the member that I am not a coward. If he wants to test that, that is fine here in the chamber, but it is unparliamentary to call any member here in the chamber a coward.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/17/24 12:29:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I said his actions, like those of his leader, are weak and cowardly. He can interpret that as he wishes.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Sep/17/24 12:29:55 p.m.
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I would remind members to be very careful with the words they use. If it causes disorder in the House, they should not be using those words. I did not hear the whole sentence the hon. member said, aside from what he has just told me. We will review Hansard and come back to the House as necessary.

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Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC)

Sep/17/24 12:30:28 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, now I will go back to the speech where I was talking about Liberal corruption, and in particular how over the course of the last number of years we have seen an unprecedented level of corruption take place, and that is no more true than in the case of GC Strategies. The report from OGGO specifically talks about the need for the basic level of accountability. In fact, what the motion before us does is take the politics out of it by asking the Auditor General to step in and do a performance audit on GC Strategies. Most notably, and it has been mentioned in the discussions that have happened thus far this morning, this two-person firm is named GC Strategies not because it is associated with the Government of Canada but because it wants that perception in order to be able to manipulate the process in order to get contracts. ArriveCAN, specifically, was originally budgeted at $80,000, but ended up ballooning to a cost for which we do not even know the final number, other than that it is probably north of $60 million. That is a level of corruption that is astonishing and that Canadians are demanding answers for. What is so frustrating is that I hear from my constituents on a regular basis, and from Canadians from coast to coast, that there is a level of frustration and an erosion of trust that has taken place in the institutions that normally, historically, we could have been able to trust. There was a very poignant statement made to me by somebody who did not consider themselves that political. They did not really have a particular party that they championed; they were just a regular Canadian. What they had shared with me is that we used to be a country where if we did not like the guy in charge, we could still respect the office they held. Unfortunately we have come to the point where the actions of the Prime Minister and the Liberals, supported by the NDP, include a refusal to commit to put their foot down, and not just do press stunts, to actually oppose the agenda they still support. What we see in this country is that there has been an erosion of trust in our institutions. The fact is that, like the previous member mentioned, this could have been done in-house for significantly less. It could have had the basic level of accountability through the process. The Liberals are saying that they might have made mistakes but that we should just move on. I am sorry, but $60 million spent, and close to $100 million that went to GC strategies with various contracts, showcases the corruption and the scandal at a time when Canadians are going hungry. Food banks are seeing record usage. We are seeing a level of an erosion of trust, because Canadians look at how the friends of the Liberal Party are getting rich while they are being stripped of everything. The fact is that I know that is the case across this country, and it is so regrettable that the NDP, when given the opportunity, refused to take a stand. I will let Canadians judge that for what it is. We will have a vote on the issue after question period, asking the Auditor General to take a look and to dig into the details of $100 million. I would like to, if I could, remind all members of this place that whenever the government has a dollar, whether it is the salary that we earn as parliamentarians, whether it is the dollar that goes to pay for the services that public servants provide, whether it is the dollar that is paid out in benefits, whether it goes to things like our military or the RCMP, or we could go down to other levels of government, at the core of every dollar that the government has is the fact, and this is a fact that I would hope defines the respect that needs to be shown for the dollars the government has, that it is not the government's money. It is the money of taxpayers, hard-working Canadians who pay a percentage of their income and a percentage of the things they buy, whatever the case is, to the various taxes that exist, which goes into government coffers. Those are hard-earned dollars. The sweat, the work and the blood of so many Canadians go into earning those dollars, and it is bewildering how little respect those Canadians are shown, because it is Canadians' money. Therefore when we talk about a two-person firm getting $100 million, most of which was in sole-source contracts, friends of the Liberal Party who wine and dine Liberal staffers and Liberal elites, it is astonishing the arrogance with which the government and the other parties that support it approach this lack of accountability. There is the work that the OGGO committee has done. I know that my colleagues, including an Alberta colleague who chairs it, have done a tremendous amount of work exposing some of the corruption and the need for accountability. In the case of the 13th report of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, often referred to as the mighty OGGO, there is a simple request to call in the Auditor General, the non-partisan auditor who can look at the books. I would suggest that in a country like Canada, that should not be controversial, and it is so regrettable that opposing corruption has become something that the Liberals try to turn into controversy. I stand here as a representative of about 110,000 people, over 53,000 square kilometres in beautiful East Central Alberta, proud to stand up for accountability, for the people I represent and the hard-earned dollars they send to Ottawa to steward with the most basic level of accountability, which they and all Canadians deserve.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)

Sep/17/24 12:38:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member talked about Canadians' not trusting their government and having concern over being able to trust institutions. However, I am wondering how much of a role he believes that he plays in that. The member comes in here and talks about corruption, that the government is being corrupt and is just filling the pockets of Liberal insiders, and he talks about GC strategies. Meanwhile, GC strategies used to operate under a company named Coredal, and it operated under that company name when the Conservatives were in government, so for the member to suggest that these are some kind of Liberal insiders is just completely false. Anybody who says that is lying, because it is not true. I am wondering whether the member can tell the House what role he plays in bringing forward these ideas and this misinformation, and informing Canadians to purposely pit them against the institutions that he said a constituent raised a concern with him about.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/17/24 12:39:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think it has become increasingly clear across this country that Canadians are sick and tired of the Liberals— An hon member: Oh, oh!

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Sep/17/24 12:39:53 p.m.
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I want to remind the hon. member who is yelling out her comments that if she wishes to participate in the debate, she should wait until questions and comments. The hon. member for Battle River—Crowfoot.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/17/24 12:40:10 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, for the member to somehow suggest that calling for accountability is anything other than the very basic job a parliamentarian or a Parliament should do exposes to all Canadians the problem that exists within that party. Canada deserves better than the corruption that the member supports.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

Sep/17/24 12:40:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in his speech, my colleague raised a number of very important points about accountability and how the government seems to think this is no big deal and not its responsibility. That is what happens when government responsibilities are delegated to the private sector. That is essentially what happened with GC Strategies. For some time now, I have noticed everything going down a slippery slope. Take the regulation of gene editing, for example. The government decided to let the industry itself create a registry to track all that stuff, even though it is the government's responsibility. Does the member think these kinds of bad choices can lead to even worse things in the future? Does he think the government needs to take back control and take responsibility for ensuring public safety?

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/17/24 12:41:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I talk a lot about the need for good governance. We often see examples from the Liberals that are the antithesis of that. I know the member and his party are open to continuing this coalition-type arrangement that exists here. I would hope the member would stand strongly against supporting the corruption we see across the way. However, at the very base of all of this is what has happened over the last 10 or so years. Consultants have been used in government for as long as government has existed, but the proliferation of that under the Liberals, the $20 billion that has been spent on consultants, is not resulting in good policy; it is not resulting in benefits or services being offered to Canadians. We need that basic level of accountability, but the Liberals simply refuse it.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Sep/17/24 12:42:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this is a really critical issue. I will support the motion. I want to make it very clear, though, that I do not think there is evidence for one of the comments, which was about Kristian Firth. I think Kristian Firth should be ashamed, but I did not hear any evidence that he was wining and dining Liberal insiders. He was wining and dining whatever person was within the bureaucratic chain of command, but I did not hear anything about party affiliations. Has the member heard that?

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/17/24 12:43:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it was certainly poignant when Kristian Firth was called to the bar in a historic moment and refused to acknowledge any shame for the abuse of tax dollars. To speak to the member's point, we have seen a breakdown of the processes that are supposed to ensure accountability when it comes to all aspects of how government is contracted. It seems as though the Liberals will move heaven and earth to benefit their friends, but they refuse to hold on to the basic level of accountability that Canadians expect.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Sep/17/24 12:44:38 p.m.
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Before we go to the next speaker, I am ready to rule on the point of order that the hon. member for Windsor West brought forward. After reviewing Hansard, I want to ask the hon. member for Battle River—Crowfoot to rise in the House to withdraw his comments and to apologize not only to the member for Windsor West but also to the leader of the NDP.

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Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC)

Sep/17/24 12:44:38 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I apologize and withdraw them.

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Mr. Larry Brock (Brantford—Brant, CPC)

Sep/17/24 12:44:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to start by saying what an honour and privilege it is to rise for the first time in our fall session and speak to a topic that I have had the privilege of participating in largely throughout the summer, as well as for the past year or so in numerous committees. This is a topic that has dominated the landscape of Canadian politics. I want to pick up where my colleague just left off in terms of the themes of my speech, which will largely be about trust and accountability. There have been so many scandals at the heart of the corrupt Liberal government, but this scandal in particular strikes at the hearts of Canadians whom I have spoken to from across this country. It shows how poor our procurement system is and how much chaos has been created by individuals who should have taken responsibility and provided the proper oversight but clearly did not. Therefore, let us focus on GC Strategies. I know the Liberal members will probably not like what I am about to say, because I was often interrupted in numerous committees, but from what Kristian Firth himself said, he specifically chose the name GC Strategies for a purpose. GC stands for “Government of Canada”, and it is important to highlight this here in the House and to share that with Canadians. It exemplifies the type of rotten, improper relationship that Kristian Firth has had with the Government of Canada. Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Larry Brock: I do not need to hear chirping, Madam Speaker. Perhaps you want to address those individuals, who should know better. They are certainly not new to Parliament, but I sure am used to their interruptions. I will continue. Kristian Firth was part of a two-person firm operating with no bricks and mortar and largely working out of a basement. He was essentially performing services that could have and should have been performed by Canada's professional public service. He was essentially a recruiter. He did not perform any IT work. He did not discharge any technical experience with the creation of the app. He merely connected the CBSA and other federal departments with professionals in the Ottawa and surrounding areas to create an app that had an original estimated cost to Canadians of $80,000. He literally opened up his rolodex, his contact sheet, and found the required individuals for the government to work with. I put that particular question on numerous occasions to a number of professionals who testified at committee, particularly the union heads of several organizations that speak to Canada's professional public service. They confirmed to me not only that the recruitment could have been done in-house but also that the actual creation of this approximately $60-million boondoggle of an ineffective app could have been done in-house. Instead, the government claims that this was a pandemic and we had to move fast. Corners were cut, and no documentation was saved; no one is accepting responsibility. We have the Auditor General, who basically says that the pandemic is no excuse for throwing out basic accounting principles. I highlight her summary that the best she could glean with the scattered documentation she was able to receive allowed her to put out an estimate of $60 million. This is precisely why this motion is not only appropriate in its timing but also relevant in its purpose. We need to have an accurate picture as to how many more millions of dollars were funnelled to GC Strategies to pad the pockets of other insiders, other individuals who actually did no work. We know the procurement general has already estimated that 76% of all subcontractors who were hired, who were paid by to work on the app using taxpayer funds, did no work on the app. This is precisely why the opposition parties all voted in favour of the government providing us with a detailed blueprint as to how it would recoup the millions of dollars that were wasted, with no oversight and no accountability. The committee work we did has clearly shown and demonstrated to Canadians that there is a significant trust issue with how the Government of Canada is operating and procuring with outside consultants. We know that, in 2015, the Prime Minister promised he would reduce the amount of outside consultants working with the Government of Canada. However, that certainly has not been the case. My colleague who spoke previously was quite accurate in stating that over 20-billion taxpayer dollars has been sent to outside consultants. That is taxpayer money that should not have been spent. It was spent foolishly, without checks and balances. It is precisely why I have pursued a line of questioning not only to examine the wasted billions of dollars but also to explore the criminality behind the operations of GC Strategies. I just want to pause for a moment on that issue because we also heard evidence at committees that, within a couple of years after Kristian Firth's work on the ArriveCAN app, he was working with a small software company in Montreal named Botler. His handling of Botler also raised national headlines and brought to light just how inappropriate, how loose and how free Mr. Firth was with our criminal laws. Here is a case in point: Botler was working on an app that, I believe, the justice department was interested in at the time. Mr. Firth took the résumés of the two founders of Botler and determined that their experience was insufficient; however, he wanted to justify the government's working with Botler. He admitted under oath, on a few occasions at committee, that he deliberately and intentionally altered the details of their résumés to ensure they reached a certain threshold for qualification. As a former justice participant, I can say that this is outright fraud. It is not only fraud, but it is also forgery. I have been pushing the RCMP to investigate Kristian Firth on that point alone, in addition to his ill-gotten gains with respect to the ArriveCAN app. We can let this point sink in: A person who performs no professional work, merely makes a connection between the Government of Canada and an IT professional from the comfort of his basement, perhaps on a nice taxpayer-funded leather couch and watching television on a nice 100-inch screen, received $20 million of taxpayer funds. As I have often said in the House and at committee, talk about hitting the taxpayer lottery. It is no small wonder that when the RCMP commissioner testified at committee, he would not get into the particulars of what criminal charges the RCMP were investigating as they related to Kristian Firth and his partner on the ArriveCAN scam, but he did indicate that there was an open investigation. Moreover, he also confirmed to me that there were at least another half-dozen investigations into the ArriveCAN scam.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Sep/17/24 12:56:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is one fundamental flaw in what the member is trying to portray. He is attempting to mislead Canadians, quite frankly. The member knows full well that inappropriate behaviour has not been condoned in any form by this government. In fact, when it was discovered that there was inappropriate behaviour, the government acted quickly by ensuring there was a process to assure Canadians, the taxpayers, that there would be accountability and there would be a consequence for those who had violated the procedures in place to protect the taxpayer. The member intentionally tried to give the impression that it is the Liberal Party or the government, the politicians, that has not protected the interests of the taxpayer when that is just not true. If we want to look at a scandal where politicians were trying to cover something up, look at the $400-million ETS scandal of the Harper era, which the Conservatives across the way are absolutely silent on.

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Mr. Larry Brock

Sep/17/24 12:57:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if the member looks in the mirror, he will see inappropriate behaviour, not only by him but by the entire government. The government has done nothing other than try to hide, obfuscate and distance itself from this scandal. Every single member of the Liberal Party voted down the Auditor General investigating the ArriveCAN scam. That was on November 2, 2022. Over the course of numerous committees, it was the Liberal Party that routinely shut down debate, refusing to hear from the Auditor General and the RCMP commissioner. Yes, I do blame the Liberals. They are responsible, and their ministers refuse to accept responsibility for this boondoggle.

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