I want to thank the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London for an impassioned speech. He’s grown up on a farm. You can tell that you’re very passionate about that. As it relates to the legislation, I do want to let you know that my sister-in-law is a large animal vet, entered the field 30 years ago, works in Ontario as a large animal vet—Ontario, California, because we lost vets; this is now 25, 30 years ago—because the jobs were not here.

I think that, as we’ve indicated, the legislation will clarify some of these rules and responsibilities for veterinarians, and I think that will provide some clarity. There still remains a desperate shortage, though, of vets in Ontario. So my question to the member opposite: Given your commitment to farming, and even though we are losing 319 acres of land a day, quality farmland in Ontario, how do you reconcile moving forward in a sustainable way to ensure that the veterinarian sector is well supported in Ontario?

The member opposite got a little nervous there, got a little jumpy.

Last year, as part of the consultative process, I had a chance to go to the annual vet tech conference in Niagara, and I believe the minister experienced it this year as well when she went. It was amazing to me how excited these vet techs were to even have us talking about these proposed changes. There’s a growing number of vet technicians in this province and they do unbelievable yeoman service. I heard it said in the debate a little bit earlier: really see vet technicians like nurse practitioners. They can play that type of role. As we modernize and grow and continue to consolidate, I agree that I think you’re going to see the role of the vet technician continue to expand and be more important in everyday care of animals in this province.

We recognize that vet techs and farmers can administer the care on a day-to-day basis as informed by a veterinarian. We think this is very important and it’s recognized in the bill. We need to provide comprehensive legislation that enables improved, proper and efficient care for animals. It’s what I’ve heard during the consultations with stakeholders, and the government is proceeding, thankfully, in that direction.

Governments should support and allow professionals to provide informed and educated health care for animals, and after more than three decades, it’s time for the vet act to be modernized. Common sense prevails with this legislation. Logical and progressive changes prevail with this legislation. Speaker, I’m happy to have spoken in support of the proposed Bill 171, Enhancing Professional Care for Animals Act, and look forward to further debate. Thank you for your time.

I would also add one component to her question that she could maybe have asked. We want to see more Ontario kids get into these schools, and I would respectfully suggest that marks are important, always, but not always the only criteria that people should get into vet college on. There are lots of people who want to stay and live in the community they live in or the province that they grew up in, so it’s important that they get those opportunities, too, to get a seat in a vet college. But I would say that, in today’s world, our population has more than doubled since I was in high school, and I would argue that we still feed every Ontarian who is in this province, and we continue to have a wonderful, robust and successful agri-food industry, and we will have for decades to come.

Thank you to the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London.

We had the Ontario Confederation of University Faculty Associations here today, and their very strong message was that universities and colleges are collapsing because they’ve been underfunded for so many years. The underfunding predates this government, but it has continued. And even the new funding is—by the time you divide it by three years and then divide it by 25 universities, 35 colleges, it doesn’t amount to much. So even though we’ve got these great plans for new teaching opportunities for vets, my concern is—I wonder if you can help balance the books so that students can actually afford to get that training.

Further questions?

Back to further debate.

It’s not enough.

I want to thank the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London. What a valuable member of caucus, and now an associate minister, to have his depth of background that he mentioned, not only as a beef farmer, but his years of service as CEO of Masterfeeds. He kindly came to Lindsay to do a round table for Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock, but we also included Durham and, I think, Northumberland. The room was full, and so was the computer screen.

A shout-out to Mark Torrey and Steve Brackenridge from the OFA, that were there, and to Godfrey Tyler and his group from the Haliburton County Farmers’ Association, because Haliburton county, for sure, has a shortage of vets—in fact, they don’t have one right now. But as the community that Haliburton always is, it comes together to find the means.

Modernization, you mentioned, but you also mentioned about the vet techs and their increase in what they can do, and I wondered if you expand a bit on that.

Again, it was great to be in Lindsay that night. I remember, when I travelled the province, for me it was a little like Old Home Week. When people say, “Where do you go when you come to Toronto?”, I don’t know where I am, but if you tell me where somewhere in small-town Ontario is, I can usually find it or get there, because somewhere there’s a farmer with a feed bin somewhere that we used to try and at least do business with.

Vet techs are going to be a massively important part of the role going forward. The member for Timiskaming–Cochrane said it best, and I agree totally with him: In the future, farms are going to be bigger and farther apart, especially in the northern and eastern parts of this province, so vet technicians will play a more important role. Even more importantly, they’ll work in conjunction with their vet to make sure that the services can be done—things like ultrasounds, things like preg-checks—many different things that can be done, really, by a vet technician with oversight from a vet, but without a vet being on the farm. It’s going to work, and work really well.

So the answer is giving vet technicians more opportunity to perform some of the services without a vet on site, and secondly, it’s to continue to find more spaces for students to follow a career in veterinary medicine, like we did last year for the 20 spaces opening up both in Thunder Bay and in Guelph.

And lo and behold, this government, this minister, acted. It’s not part of this legislation, but it’s a meaningful and important step towards servicing those who are in underserviced or more remote parts of the province.

I would start off by respectfully submitting that $1.3 billion is a lot of money. And you’re right—

Generally, I take a look at the University of Guelph or Thunder Bay—up at Thunder Bay, we do a really good job in agriculture. That being said, we’ve opened up 20 spaces. There’s a demand for more. What we have to do is create the need in communities and—

To the minister: One of the things that we’ve talked a little bit about over deliberations in debate today is the grant for large animal vets. I know, obviously, you’ve got a lot of experience with having vets on your farm, and my—we’ll say uncle; it’s a bit of a complicated situation—but Uncle Chuck, if you’re watching, which you probably aren’t, was a large animal vet in northern Ontario as well, and he does actually have a moustache as well, Madam Speaker, so you’ll be happy to know I’m channelling my inner Uncle Chuck today.

I just wanted you to talk a little bit more about what it means to be able to, especially in northern Ontario, have more large animal vets, especially as we’re looking at ways—the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane was talking about it: more animal agriculture in northern Ontario, and really seeing that as a key to unlocking a lot of the potential in the north.

Yes, I absolutely do, and I know that Oshawa, as all of our communities, has a whole bunch of pets that it loves. As I had just mentioned, we also had a kangaroo that we all claimed wasn’t an actual pet. But I think people in our community would appreciate having more access to more professionals. So if we can have more vet techs, if we can have vets with maybe some help and support, a few more vets online, that would be great.

I share a parking lot with a veterinary clinic, and it is a hopping, happening spot. Certainly in Oshawa, as everywhere, we love our pets and we want to make sure that they have access to the care that they deserve when needed. Thank you.

Questions?

I can appreciate that perhaps the member from Oshawa might not have as many farm or veterinarian concerns in her riding as we have in some other ridings, such as my riding or as the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane, but I’d like to ask her a question about veterinarians that might apply to small animals, because certainly those are common everywhere across the province of Ontario. I think that this piece of legislation would be very useful to all ridings, including the riding of Oshawa, in that it would provide more veterinarians and trained experts in that field to take care of not only farm animals, but also pets, and everybody loves their pets.

So I would like to invite the member from Oshawa to comment on whether or not she thinks the training of more veterinarians and vet techs under this legislation will be of benefit to the constituents in her riding.

Further questions?

The member from Kent—

Interjections.

Further debate?

She was hopping around all over the thing.

I just want to say to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs and her staff and the folks at OMAFRA: What a great job. Here we stand today and we have a bill that ostensibly satisfies the opposition, notwithstanding the member from Oshawa who raised some issues that maybe aren’t addressed in this bill. But one bill alone can never address all of the issues here in the province of Ontario, no matter what the sector. I mean, it would take more than one bill just to figure me out.

But I do want to say that this is something that is increasingly rare and a real breath of fresh air, when you have a bill where you’ve gone through the process. You haven’t done this willy-nilly or with your eyes half-closed; you’ve gone through the process of consulting properly with all of the stakeholders involved in the sector, and that in itself, I think, is a lesson to be learned. We can accomplish a lot in this place by going through that process on a repetitive basis, and that’s exactly what our government wants to do: We want to bring forth good legislation that speaks to a need.

A lot of people would ask themselves, “Are you kidding me that this act essentially hadn’t been reviewed or updated since 1989?” Our youngest daughter, Emily, was born in 1989. She’s going to be 35 years old this year. I can’t imagine anything in 35 years not having been updated. I mean, I’ve been updated several times, and there’s no chance of actually getting it right, but I have been updated several times, and 35 years is a long time to go.

And I’m not a farmer. I think everybody here knows this. It doesn’t mean I can’t spread it, but I’m not a farmer by trade. However, one of the things we all know about farming—or we should know—is that each and every one of us has an absolute biological need to be nourished: to eat, to drink, to take on the kinds of food and the liquids that sustain us. I think sometimes we lose sight—not intentionally; just because we live in a world that is running helter-skelter and all over the place, and our attention is taken here and there—of where that nourishment comes from. We lose sight of the fact that without our farmers, without those who produce the food, we’re going to starve, unless you’re going to produce it yourself, which brings me back to the old days, way before my time—in fact, even before you, Minister Lumsden.

So I think about the stories that my dad would tell, because it’s before his time too. Let me think—one, two, three—I’m fifth-generation here in Canada. My family immigrated from what was then what was then West Prussia, Poland, in 1868, and they, like everybody else, were given a tract of land, 100 acres. The old homestead still exists down Siberia Road, in what we call Siberia. It’s not like the Siberia in Russia, but it’s not far from it. This was a tract of land that they were given: “Now you’re going to be here in Canada.”

My great-great-grandfather Paul Yakabuski—my father’s name was Paul Yakabuski as well—was the first one of our clan to come on the Yakabuski side. The Conways came from Ireland, of course, and they settled more in the Brudenell area. But in the Siberia Road area, many of the Polish settlers, from the Kashubian part of Poland, came and settled there.

I’m telling you, if you’ve never been to my area, you’re going to ask yourself, “Besides rocks, what could you grow there?” It was some of the most un-arable land that you could think of—just pitiful. But by the sweat of their brow and by their commitment to a new land and a new life—think about it: In the first year you were there, you would have to have crops in the ground and a roof over your head. Obviously, people helped one another. You didn’t have the ABC construction company coming in and, “Well, we’ll pour the foundation, and Joe’s going to come and do the framing, and Billy will put the roof on.” No. Work had to be done in a very rudimentary way. The cabins and the things that were built were pretty basic, but all the while, you had to be prepared to be able to produce some food, and if you didn’t, you had to be able to barter some things with someone who was producing food. So when you think about it, that’s absolutely the kind of life when it began here in Canada for our ancestors that came from different parts of the world but primarily European countries and what it was like.

So my grandfather Frank Yakabuski bought a business from a fellow by the name of Stephen Smith, and his original business was farm implements and things such as that that everybody needed some kind of. Everybody had some farming. Whether they were doing some crops or raising some livestock, almost everybody that had one of those 100-acre plots did some farming on their own. So that was part of his business.

And I tell you this story about my grandfather—I mean, obviously, I wasn’t there, but he may have gotten into that business somewhat by design or somewhat by accident. But he bought the business from a fella by the name of Stephen Smith, and I can only surmise that Stephen Smith decided he wanted to get out of the business because he wanted to leave Barry’s Bay, and I’ll tell you why. The house that we live in, my wife, Vicky, and—our children were raised in there as well. It’s on the same plot, on the same piece of ground that my grandfather’s house was on, and he didn’t just buy the business from Stephen Smith; he bought the house. And I can only surmise that Stephen Smith wanted to start a new life of his own, because in the early 1900s—and we lived beside the cemetery. In the early 1900s, during a diphtheria epidemic—and I’m not going to say exactly. I’m not sure if it’s eight or nine, but Stephen Smith and his wife lost eight children during that diphtheria epidemic. So you can imagine what he would have gone through, him and his family, and they just wanted to have a start somewhere else.

So my grandfather bought the house, he bought the business, and that’s how he got into business. He was also an undertaker, because do you know what? It doesn’t matter how small the town is, it doesn’t matter where you come from, people die, and somebody’s got to look after the dead. Well, that was what my grandfather did as well.

So, all along, we’ve seen the evolution to some degree of the agricultural industry in my neck of the woods, as they say, which is not unique. Everybody sitting here, if their families were here, went through that same thing. Somewhere here in Canada, it might have been Saskatchewan, like my colleague from Eglinton–Lawrence; it might have been somewhere else, but everybody who came here in that period, in the 1800s, went through that same kind of heartache, hardship, wondering if they were going to survive but slowly inching ahead, and the same thing happened to our agricultural industry.

Can you imagine the stoneboats? If you come to my area and you—Wilno. You may have heard of the Wilno hills. It’s famous for the stone fences, and Brenda Lee-Whiting actually wrote a book called Harvest of Stones. It’s about farming in Renfrew county in the early days, because that’s what it was, a harvest of stones. And it’s amazing, because every spring, you thought you had them all, and every spring, there was a whole new crop of stones, because the frost would drive them up, the ones that you didn’t get the year before, and you had to deal with those stones that year.

So this is part of the growth and the, as I say, the evolution. Technology: I mean, we don’t think of going from plowing by hand and then having a horse to pull that plow as technology, but that’s exactly what it is; it’s just a different kind at a different stage. So slowly but surely, they improved the way that they cultivated and harvested.

And that speaks to why our government—and our government values agriculture at the highest level, because, as I said in my opening remarks, you can do without that fancy new car and you can do without 27 pairs of shoes—okay, maybe some can’t—but you can’t live without food. You can’t live without food. And that’s why you have to, every day—I’m sure you’ve seen the little licence plate holders, the frames around the licence plates. I think it says something like “Did you eat today?” or “If you ate today, thank a farmer.” Well, that’s exactly what our government sees. And farmers are feeling the pressure of not enough veterinarians, something that we recognize.

I want to thank my colleague the Associate Minister of Housing for the work that he did. He criss-crossed this province, and I’ll tell you about Pembroke. He came to my riding, in Pembroke—the biggest consultation they had, the best-attended consultation they had. I think it was the fact that we brought some snacks. But he traversed this province to find out what people were saying on the ground, what the real people were saying about agriculture and the situation regarding veterinary medicine here in Ontario. He didn’t go out there with a preconceived picture of what we needed to do; he went out with his eyes open and his ears open, and maybe his mouth shut a little bit.

Along with the PA from Chatham-Kent–Leamington—

Interjection: Great guy.

The whole speech was interesting, but I must say that the last little part talking about this kangaroo who ended up in her community sort of piqued my interest.

Thank you, Speaker: Chatham-Kent–Leamington. I would invite you to come down and anyone else to come down and see our area.

I want to stray from the topic of the Oshawa kangaroo because that doesn’t have anything to do with this bill. It’s interesting, ripped from the headlines, but there is something that the member from Oshawa touched on that will bring some relevance here. Does the member for Oshawa agree that through streamlining the complaint process and clarifying the role of investigators, we’re actually strengthening the ability to investigate instances of animal welfare?

Folks have a lot of questions about how there was the Oshawa kangaroo. It was hopping around for days and everyone was really interested in making sure the kangaroo was able to be safe at the end of the story, which, yes, it is.

However, where on earth did this kangaroo come from? Apparently, it was being transported from one zoo to another. They stopped so it could stretch its legs, and it literally hopped over a fence and ran away. So, who was transporting this and why?

Interjections.

Interjection.

There is stricter legislation that needs to be considered when it comes to zoos. We are famous for roadside zoos, and some of you might feel affectionate towards them, but we do not have regulations. You, too, could have a roo.

Somewhere in some zoo, there are kangaroos that this province doesn’t know about, because these roadside zoos are not licensed, they’re not anything. The government does not have eyes on it unless they get a complaint. Okay? But hopefully there are vets looking after those animals, one would hope, but again, when Ontario is ranking dead last in zoo regulations report cards, the government knows this, that there is that gap.

So you’ve got animal professionals, veterinarians that are being called to look after animals that shouldn’t be allowed to be there. So there are some pieces that I imagine you will hear from the veterinary community, but again when this government calls a bill Enhancing Professional Care for Animals Act, then I would say that all zoos should ensure that they have professional care for animals. Thank you.

It was a Sunday morning, and my staffer got a call from the police and was asked if he worked for Jennifer French the MPP, and when he confirmed, they said, “You have to come to the office.” He did not know what he would find. There were five or six cop cars, and a deer had run through my glass window, done a lap around my office, left me messages and left again. We saw the security footage. It was quite a day. That deer ran back and had stories to tell. There were two other deer that came to Oshawa that day. We don’t know where one of them went; the other one ran into a bar. That deer ran into a bar and passed the bar, and the bartender was behind, and one person got up and ran behind, and the other sat there and didn’t miss a sip. That deer stood at the back for four or five hours, waiting for karaoke, until the vets and the ministry came to peacefully tranquilize it, take it out on a sled, get it care and release it, also with stories.

So, welcome to Oshawa. But all that to say, a vet probably doesn’t know what their day is going to look like, especially on a Sunday in Oshawa.

What we also are glad to see is more spaces, but we need to make sure that those vets have the support they need to stay in practice, and that they can indeed be found across communities where they’re needed. And those who are from other countries—I have read that it’s also a recommendation to be able to get them into practising in a fair way, but make sure there’s a clear path for those who come with—

I really appreciate the comments from the member for Oshawa. My family is from Oshawa, and when I go to visit there, I hear often about the incredible work that you’re doing for the community and how much it’s appreciated.

You were talking about the kangaroo. In Toronto, we had a pair of capybaras that escaped from the High Park Zoo a while ago, and they went gallivanting all over the city. They were spotted in Scarborough and everywhere else before they were finally brought home. You talked about this kangaroo that was on the lam in the ‘Shwa. But there’s another story as well, I understand, about a deer that showed up for work one day. Can you please tell us about the deer that showed up?

Thank you to the member for her remarks.

I am confident that the member from Oshawa agrees with the benefits of a quality assurance committee, and I would also believe that the member also agrees that continued education for a regulated profession does align with other regulated professions, like doctors, lawyers, for example.

My question to the member is, do you believe it is an important feature to ensure that those who administer animal care have the most up-to-date education?

Of course, a great member, an OPP officer. I’ve got so much respect. Thank you for your service.

And, of course, the Minister of Agriculture: We heard her speak today for 60 minutes, and she covers it all. She has done it all. She understands the file so much better than someone like myself.

But what I get excited about is when you see the results of those processes. Those meetings that were held—I don’t have the list in front of me, but you heard from Minister Flack and Minister Thompson. You’ve heard from them where all those consultations were. I was part of the one in Pembroke, and let me tell you, folks: Everybody here, I’m sure that your grandmother said at some time that you learn something new every day, and if you don’t, well, you’ve been sleeping or something. But I can’t tell you how much I learned at that meeting about veterinary medicine, but not only the medicine itself; the problems that are out there: not enough veterinarians.

Our farmland is more productive than it has ever been. We produced more on our farmland today than we ever have. We’re an exporting province in agricultural products, even after we’re feeding our 15-million-people population. Because of technology, we’re more productive, but that means we can raise more livestock. It also means we need to be able to take care of those livestock.

When you look at rural Ontario—and I want to thank the member for Timiskaming–Cochrane, because he can paint a picture pretty well about what it’s like in northern Ontario, because that’s his canvas. He knows it. The challenge of getting a veterinarian to the place of where he or she is needed when you’ve got miles and miles between them and the farm is a daunting task.

So how do you address that? Well, one of the things you do is you graduate more veterinarians. So 20 additional seats between Thunder Bay and Guelph means we’re going to have more veterinarians able to service those farms. “Winner, winner, chicken dinner,” as they say. You can’t go wrong with that one. Now, on top of that—and I’m just touching the surface of this bill; I could speak for a week if I actually knew more about it.

But what about $50,000 over five years to assist a new veterinarian who’s willing to work and serve a rural or remote area? How is that going to help the member for Timiskaming–Cochrane and anybody else that has an expanse in the rural areas? Do you know how you make those decisions? You come to the conclusions from listening to people. Oh, I’m so excited about this, because of the work that’s been done to get to where we are today.

Now, that’s not all. That’s not all—

Veterinary technicians are the livestock-animal answer to the nurse practitioner. So we’re going to increase and broaden the scope of practice for veterinary technicians. Again, you want to talk about getting it right? There’s no such thing as getting it more than 100% right, but if they ever invent that, here’s something that does get it that way, because that’s exactly what we need: more people who can deliver the service to the farms. And we’re not just talking about large animals here—for the farms, it’s large animals mainly—but also pets and small animals as well. Because we have a shortage of vets in every sector.

So I want to just thank everyone who’s been so involved and active in this, and I did want to just comment on one thing from the member for Oshawa, as she was talking about animal abuse. I’ve always believed that anybody who will abuse an animal, you can count on that person as being someone who will abuse another human being as well. There is no excuse. It can never be acceptable, and it needs to be dealt with in the harshest ways possible. Do we agree 100% on that?

So as I said, Speaker, and I didn’t even get to all of the copious notes that I put down here, but I want to thank everybody who’s been so involved in this. It’s a great piece of legislation. I look forward to the further debate, and I thank the opposition for stating clearly right from the start that they’re going to support this bill.