Hon. Mobina S. B. Jaffer: Senator Gold, thank you very much for your presentation.

The National Security and Defence Committee has a very competent steering committee, and they chose 12 witnesses. You are saying that we didn’t have children appear before our committee. These witnesses are well-known people who, I’m sure, have studied this material. I think it’s a little unfair to say that they couldn’t speak for the children. I can’t repeat the words you said because I don’t have them in front of me, but I think it’s a bit unfair.

The steering committee had an opportunity to call those witnesses. They could have called children if they had deemed it necessary. As chair, I have done that a number of times. The fact that they called 12 credible people to the committee, do you not think they were able to balance the number of witnesses? Don’t you think you were unfair in the way you addressed those witnesses who appeared before us and provided good testimony?

The Hon. the Speaker: I regret to inform the honourable senator that her time has expired again. Are you asking for more time?

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this report be taken into consideration?

(On motion of Senator Massicotte, report placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.)

[English]

An Hon. Senator: On division.

(Motion agreed to and bill, as amended, read third time and passed, on division.)

(At 11:39 p.m., the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 2 p.m.)

Senator Gold: Thank you, senator, for your question. Of course, the government and I share the concern, as we all should, that the application of any legal standard could encourage a bias or racial profiling.

I do believe that the general concern speaks more to the fact that with digital devices, unlike other kinds of measures — and I addressed this in my speech — the officer may have no specific contravention in mind and no knowledge of what he or she may find because they are simply in the moment, although there would have been objective indicators to signal that something may be being hidden.

We had testimony before the committee as to what some of these indicators might be. I believe that it is still very much focused on the individual before the officer who has, in some way or other, in the answering of the normal questions one is asked, given some indication that there is something amiss and, therefore, is then required to go to a second stage of questioning, at which point the officer may very well have reached the conclusion that the threshold has been met.

Senator Gold: The attendance of the official at the party was a mistake and unacceptable. It has been so stated by the minister and by the Prime Minister himself. It shall not happen again.

Senator MacDonald: According to the answer tabled in the other place in February of this year, the Department of National Defence awarded a contract of $125,000 of taxpayer dollars to one consultant firm to process just one Access to Information and Privacy, or ATIP, request. As well, the document showed that Health Canada and the Public Health Agency of Canada paid $36,000 to one consulting firm for a contract between February and March of 2020, and processed no access to information requests — not one.

Senator Gold, how does the government possibly justify these contracts?

Senator Dupuis: Senator Gold, thank you for encouraging me to ask the question in committee. I have been doing that consistently for years in the Senate, and I am trying to find a more efficient way of obtaining the information that is often “missing,” as the Auditor General regularly laments in his annual report. I take note of your commitment to get the information, and I thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Ataullahjan, do you have another question?

Hon. Ratna Omidvar: Senator Gold, will you take a question, please?

Senator Pate: Senator Gold, I think you know that if, in fact, that were true, the government would have produced that evidence. But the evidence they have produced was that 9 in 10 Canadians want to see an elimination of mandatory minimum penalties. Wouldn’t you agree that data has been clearly sought and received by the Department of Justice?

Senator Jaffer: May I ask you another question?

Senator Omidvar: Senator Gold, I would have felt far more comfortable with this bill if it had first been preceded by the bill setting up the independent civilian oversight of the CBSA.

Do you have a comment on the timing of this?

Senator Gold: Again, let me answer it simply this way: Until changes are made, anybody who reckons they have been treated unfairly have only recourse to the existing procedures.

Again, Bill S-7, as amended before us, sets out, for the first time, a legal threshold governing the searches of digital devices. It is a very narrowly focused law responding, as it does, to the court decisions to which I referred.

The much larger questions about oversight will have to wait until another day. When we do have the opportunity to receive such a bill, I have every confidence that we will study it with the same diligence and intensity that we did this bill as well.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the third time?

(On motion of Senator Boehm, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for third reading at the next sitting of the Senate.)

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of three refugees from Yemen who are visiting the Senate today on World Refugee Day: Lamees Alwasabi, Kais Al-ariani and Mohammed Al‑shuwaiter. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Jaffer.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Senator Gold: When I said I wasn’t sure of all the facts, I wasn’t referring to the statistics so much as all the circumstances surrounding the cause of the delays.

I’m not aware of the proportion of workers who are still working at home nor the many different reasons that may explain that. I’ll certainly look into it and report back. Again, I can assure the chamber that the government is very aware of the unreasonably long delays and the impact that’s having on Canadians and is doing its very best to address the situation.