Senator Pate: Senator Gold, I think you know that if, in fact, that were true, the government would have produced that evidence. But the evidence they have produced was that 9 in 10 Canadians want to see an elimination of mandatory minimum penalties. Wouldn’t you agree that data has been clearly sought and received by the Department of Justice?

Senator Pate: Senator Gold, would it be possible to provide that information? My last discussions with officials from the Department of Justice indicated that a full 34% of all Charter challenges they are dealing with have to do with mandatory minimum penalties, and they hope that this will have a significant impact but they cannot produce figures to shore up that hope. Would it be possible for you produce those figures for us, please?

Senator Pate: Thank you, Senator Simons, for sparking another question from me. In discussions with the government, it was clear that the primary focus for this legislation was to address mandatory minimum penalties, which was in the 2015 election platform, as you know, as well as in the Calls for Justice of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls and the Calls to Action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It has been clearly laid out that this is only a step forward, even though there is a patchwork of mandatory minimum penalties; and, unlike the medical assistance in dying, where our most recent debates were sparked by 1 lower court decision, we have more than 43 court decisions, and counting, that have struck down mandatory minimum penalties.

Would it be too far for me to go to say that it has been brought to my attention that this is likely the only opportunity and there are many people, both within the government and outside, who want to see us push on this piece of legislation to actually help it achieve the aim that the government has ascribed to it?

Senator Pate: I apologize. I obviously didn’t articulate that very well, Senator Gold. What I was saying is that if that evidence existed to show that these mandatory minimum penalties would significantly impact the incarceration rates, that data would have been produced and would have been part of your speech. I don’t envy your position of having to defend that, but it would have been. There have been numerous questions and certainly there is an abundance of evidence that the data has not been produced. You have not been able to provide the actual numbers. Have I missed something?