Some Hon. Senators: No.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Dalphond is asking for five minutes. Honourable senators, if you do not agree, say “no.”

Senator Dalphond: Five minutes, please?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Dalphond, we have to move on to the debate.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Bovey, we have three minutes until the dinner break.

[Translation]

Hon. Tony Loffreda: Senator Gold, my question is on strategy. In the initial planning stages, to what extent were our banks consulted? Have they shared concerns about public perception with respect to their independence?

Like law enforcement, I know many Canadians expect their financial institutions to be independent and free from government intervention. I do appreciate that these are emergency measures, that they are targeted and temporary, but they are unprecedented.

Senator Carignan: Yes, and I am certain you will like it.

You explained that it was a problem to coordinate the various police forces to deal with the situation before us, and that this required the use of emergency measures.

In 2010, at the G8 and G20 Summits, 21,000 police officers from different police forces were called in to provide security.

At the Summit of the Americas, 6,000 officers from four different police services provided security.

Why is it that what was possible at the Summit of the Americas, the G8 Summit and the G20 Summit was impossible here, in Ottawa, and that it was impossible to tow vehicles that were parked on Wellington Street?

Senator Quinn: It’s very difficult, having worked in emergency situations in another life, to not be able to have access to all that vital information to help the decision-making process. Nevertheless, earlier we talked about the possible post‑mortem — I’m not sure if that’s the right language. Does this committee, as I understand it, have a specific life? When the emergency ends, does it have a week or two or will it be extended or have a life that will allow it to be part of any post-mortem that may take place?

Hon. Frances Lankin: Senator Boehm, I don’t know if you’ll have a chance to answer this, but your role in the Summit of the Americas as well as your knowledge of the G20 and G7 meetings have been referenced as examples where we were able to coordinate police resources. How many months of planning went into that? How much time was there to actually deputize police?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Okay.

Senator Moncion, time is up. Resuming debate, Senator Moodie.

[English]

Senator Gold: I already answered that question, but out of respect for you, honourable colleague, I will try to provide a brief answer. I sincerely invite you to study the measures, because they were put in place not in a comprehensive way, but in a coherent way, so that each one reinforces the other. The dissuasive impact of a potential financial penalty, the very real possibility of being charged under the Criminal Code or other laws, in addition to other tools for quickly deploying enough force to counter the numbers and the determination of those who had set up camp in Ottawa: all these things gave our police officers a few days to completely change the situation in the streets. It is true, and I completely understand that people think it’s important to examine certain aspects of the matter in isolation, but we have to look at the combined effect of these measures. That is how these measures were designed and deployed. I hope that provides a bit more context to an answer I already gave.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. There are different categories of information with different levels of protection and different levels of access. As you note in the text of the act, every member of the parliamentary review committee would be required to take an oath of secrecy as set out in the schedule. But there is nothing in the act that requires members to have been given a security clearance, such as, for example, members in this chamber who sit on the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, or NSICOP, have been required to go through and which gives them access on an as-needed basis — not at large; even that is constrained — to information that is otherwise not made public to parliamentarians under any other circumstances.

So, of course, it is important — to return to your question, Senator Quinn — in order for the parliamentary review committee to do the job we expect it to do, the job that the drafters of the bill expect it to do, that the committee needs to and will have access to all relevant information that is made available. In this case, and you alluded to it, there will be some measures — not intelligence information I hasten to add, but certain regulations that may be promulgated. There are none that exist now and there are none that are contemplated, as I said. But were such regulations to be promulgated that by the operation of the Statutory Instruments Act could not be for reasons that it contains confidential information published in the Canada Gazette and therefore available to the public, then, yes, that committee would have access in private to that information to help it inform its decision. Again, I hope that answers your question.

Senator Black: My question is related to agriculture, which I know is no surprise to you or my colleagues here in the chamber. The question refers to the use of the term “critical infrastructure” under paragraph 2(1)(b) related to prohibition and public assembly, which does not confer upon the Minister of Public Safety the power to designate additional places, similar to the designation of protected places per 6(f) of the regulation.

The Emergency Measures Regulations provide a definition of critical infrastructure, which is not reflective of the importance of agriculture supply chains here in Canada and to the world. For example, the definition does not include agricultural processing and distribution facilities, like the food terminal in Toronto or processing plants across the country, most of which are located on private property and not on federal or provincial land. This means that the regulation which prohibits assemblies that interfere with the functioning of critical infrastructure does not include many of these agricultural supply chain vulnerabilities. Further, it means that the Emergency Economic Measures Order does not cover financial activities designated to disrupt agricultural processing and distribution facilities. By contrast other essential services, like ports and hospitals, currently fall within the scope of the order.

Senator Gold, why is the agricultural sector not included as critical infrastructure? Is this an oversight? And while we have been told agriculture supply chains are included under section 2, the actual buildings used for the food processing and distribution would not be. Would the government support efforts by the Senate to amend the Emergency Measures Regulations pursuant to subsection 61(3) of the Emergencies Act related to this necessary change?

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: Senator Gold, will you take another question?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Do you have a question, Senator Carignan?

Senator Carignan: I don’t want to start a debate with you over this issue.

We are talking about an order being confirmed under an act that sets out emergency measures. There are conditions set out in the act that must be met in order to be able to confirm the order.

One of those conditions is that the crisis cannot be resolved under the existing federal, provincial and municipal laws so special emergency measures are needed to deal with the situation. That is the criterion.

As you may have noticed, my questions are about the justification for why the existing laws were insufficient to intervene and why the use of emergency measures was warranted. If there was a mediation process that can or must be used and it wasn’t used in this case, then I think it’s fair to ask whether the conditions of the act have been met before confirming the order.

You explained earlier that there was a problem coordinating the various police forces —

(1430)

Senator Carignan: Your Honour, I think we will need to create a new award to recognize senators for participation. We will call that a gold medal.

[Translation]

My question has to do with Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act. I don’t think this question has been asked. Subsection 134.1(1) gives the police the ability to remove a vehicle that is impeding the flow of traffic without even requiring a tow truck, because it gives them the power to order someone to remove the vehicle. If the person doesn’t obey the order, they can be charged with obstruction under section 129 of the Criminal Code, but the police also have the authority to move the vehicle themselves.

Subsection 134.1(1) states, and I quote:

Where a police officer considers it reasonably necessary,

(a) to ensure orderly movement of traffic . . .

he or she may remove and store or order the removal and storage of a vehicle . . . that [is] directly or indirectly impeding or blocking the normal and reasonable movement of traffic on a highway . . . .

Senator Gold, why confirm an emergency measures order to strengthen the enforcement of a simple provision in Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act?

Senator Gold: Senator, you mentioned that the provinces and local police forces had all of the tools needed to resolve the crisis and the ability to do so. That surprises me because, in my humble opinion, determining an inability to do something is more than just a theoretical exercise. Inability can be the result of an unwillingness to take action or a loss of control over a situation. I would ask my colleague the following question. Wouldn’t you agree that the complete lack of public order in Ottawa for three weeks because of the occupation proves that there was an inability to resolve this crisis?

Senator Moncion: My question is this. Violence on the part of some protesters and the brutality of police repression marked the international G20 summit that took place in Toronto on June 26 and 27, 2010. You mentioned several times today that that summit was a success. So far, last weekend marks the largest police operation and the biggest wave of arrests in Canadian history. There was a security detail of 10,000 police officers on site at the G20, and the summit organizers were prepared for it. In Ottawa, there were 1,800 police officers who did an incredible job —