Hon. Mobina S. B. Jaffer: Leader, first of all, I want to thank you for your very comprehensive speech. I know many of us will read it a number of times. Thank you also for answering all our questions.

Senator Gold, this is a question very different from all the questions you have been asked. We have spent a lot of time talking about the current state of Canada. We have talked about protests, blockades, trade disruptions. I’m sure everyone in the chamber would agree that the current state of affairs is very troubling.

Leader, while we work to discuss where we are and where we need to go, I think we also need to — especially this inquiry and find further ways to look at the root causes of what got us here. In the public inquiry and even earlier, you said that the inquiry itself will be a post-mortem.

So my question to you: Will this inquiry not only look at why the act was invoked, but also look at what led to this situation? Specifically, will the inquiry look into how the root issues, which underpin the mass occupations we have seen across Canada, contributed to the creation of the situation? Thank you, leader.

Senator Quinn: It’s very difficult, having worked in emergency situations in another life, to not be able to have access to all that vital information to help the decision-making process. Nevertheless, earlier we talked about the possible post‑mortem — I’m not sure if that’s the right language. Does this committee, as I understand it, have a specific life? When the emergency ends, does it have a week or two or will it be extended or have a life that will allow it to be part of any post-mortem that may take place?

Hon. Frances Lankin: Senator Boehm, I don’t know if you’ll have a chance to answer this, but your role in the Summit of the Americas as well as your knowledge of the G20 and G7 meetings have been referenced as examples where we were able to coordinate police resources. How many months of planning went into that? How much time was there to actually deputize police?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Okay.

Senator Moncion, time is up. Resuming debate, Senator Moodie.

[English]

Senator Gold: I already answered that question, but out of respect for you, honourable colleague, I will try to provide a brief answer. I sincerely invite you to study the measures, because they were put in place not in a comprehensive way, but in a coherent way, so that each one reinforces the other. The dissuasive impact of a potential financial penalty, the very real possibility of being charged under the Criminal Code or other laws, in addition to other tools for quickly deploying enough force to counter the numbers and the determination of those who had set up camp in Ottawa: all these things gave our police officers a few days to completely change the situation in the streets. It is true, and I completely understand that people think it’s important to examine certain aspects of the matter in isolation, but we have to look at the combined effect of these measures. That is how these measures were designed and deployed. I hope that provides a bit more context to an answer I already gave.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. There are different categories of information with different levels of protection and different levels of access. As you note in the text of the act, every member of the parliamentary review committee would be required to take an oath of secrecy as set out in the schedule. But there is nothing in the act that requires members to have been given a security clearance, such as, for example, members in this chamber who sit on the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, or NSICOP, have been required to go through and which gives them access on an as-needed basis — not at large; even that is constrained — to information that is otherwise not made public to parliamentarians under any other circumstances.

So, of course, it is important — to return to your question, Senator Quinn — in order for the parliamentary review committee to do the job we expect it to do, the job that the drafters of the bill expect it to do, that the committee needs to and will have access to all relevant information that is made available. In this case, and you alluded to it, there will be some measures — not intelligence information I hasten to add, but certain regulations that may be promulgated. There are none that exist now and there are none that are contemplated, as I said. But were such regulations to be promulgated that by the operation of the Statutory Instruments Act could not be for reasons that it contains confidential information published in the Canada Gazette and therefore available to the public, then, yes, that committee would have access in private to that information to help it inform its decision. Again, I hope that answers your question.

Senator Black: My question is related to agriculture, which I know is no surprise to you or my colleagues here in the chamber. The question refers to the use of the term “critical infrastructure” under paragraph 2(1)(b) related to prohibition and public assembly, which does not confer upon the Minister of Public Safety the power to designate additional places, similar to the designation of protected places per 6(f) of the regulation.

The Emergency Measures Regulations provide a definition of critical infrastructure, which is not reflective of the importance of agriculture supply chains here in Canada and to the world. For example, the definition does not include agricultural processing and distribution facilities, like the food terminal in Toronto or processing plants across the country, most of which are located on private property and not on federal or provincial land. This means that the regulation which prohibits assemblies that interfere with the functioning of critical infrastructure does not include many of these agricultural supply chain vulnerabilities. Further, it means that the Emergency Economic Measures Order does not cover financial activities designated to disrupt agricultural processing and distribution facilities. By contrast other essential services, like ports and hospitals, currently fall within the scope of the order.

Senator Gold, why is the agricultural sector not included as critical infrastructure? Is this an oversight? And while we have been told agriculture supply chains are included under section 2, the actual buildings used for the food processing and distribution would not be. Would the government support efforts by the Senate to amend the Emergency Measures Regulations pursuant to subsection 61(3) of the Emergencies Act related to this necessary change?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Do you have a question, Senator Carignan?

Senator Carignan: I don’t want to start a debate with you over this issue.

We are talking about an order being confirmed under an act that sets out emergency measures. There are conditions set out in the act that must be met in order to be able to confirm the order.

One of those conditions is that the crisis cannot be resolved under the existing federal, provincial and municipal laws so special emergency measures are needed to deal with the situation. That is the criterion.

As you may have noticed, my questions are about the justification for why the existing laws were insufficient to intervene and why the use of emergency measures was warranted. If there was a mediation process that can or must be used and it wasn’t used in this case, then I think it’s fair to ask whether the conditions of the act have been met before confirming the order.

You explained earlier that there was a problem coordinating the various police forces —

(1430)

Senator Carignan: Your Honour, I think we will need to create a new award to recognize senators for participation. We will call that a gold medal.

[Translation]

My question has to do with Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act. I don’t think this question has been asked. Subsection 134.1(1) gives the police the ability to remove a vehicle that is impeding the flow of traffic without even requiring a tow truck, because it gives them the power to order someone to remove the vehicle. If the person doesn’t obey the order, they can be charged with obstruction under section 129 of the Criminal Code, but the police also have the authority to move the vehicle themselves.

Subsection 134.1(1) states, and I quote:

Where a police officer considers it reasonably necessary,

(a) to ensure orderly movement of traffic . . .

he or she may remove and store or order the removal and storage of a vehicle . . . that [is] directly or indirectly impeding or blocking the normal and reasonable movement of traffic on a highway . . . .

Senator Gold, why confirm an emergency measures order to strengthen the enforcement of a simple provision in Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act?

Senator Gold: Senator, you mentioned that the provinces and local police forces had all of the tools needed to resolve the crisis and the ability to do so. That surprises me because, in my humble opinion, determining an inability to do something is more than just a theoretical exercise. Inability can be the result of an unwillingness to take action or a loss of control over a situation. I would ask my colleague the following question. Wouldn’t you agree that the complete lack of public order in Ottawa for three weeks because of the occupation proves that there was an inability to resolve this crisis?

Senator Moncion: My question is this. Violence on the part of some protesters and the brutality of police repression marked the international G20 summit that took place in Toronto on June 26 and 27, 2010. You mentioned several times today that that summit was a success. So far, last weekend marks the largest police operation and the biggest wave of arrests in Canadian history. There was a security detail of 10,000 police officers on site at the G20, and the summit organizers were prepared for it. In Ottawa, there were 1,800 police officers who did an incredible job —

Senator Carignan: Thank you for your question, senator. We would have to look at where the inability and unwillingness were coming from. Were they coming from the towing companies? Both before the Emergencies Act was invoked and after, the police had all the powers necessary to force the companies to tow the vehicles and to go after or arrest anyone who refused to do so. Those people would have been charged with obstruction.

As I said when I quoted a provision of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, the police could have simply taken the keys and moved the vehicles themselves. All they had to do was take the keys. They didn’t need an emergency measure for that.

If we are talking about the police being unwilling to move them, then that is much more worrisome, because peace officers have obligations. If we consider the occupation in Ottawa to be a riot, then the police’s failure to take action could even be considered an offence under section 69 of the Criminal Code, which states that a peace officer cannot refuse to intervene when there is a riot. Either way, both the police and the tow truck companies had an obligation to intervene.

(1650)

Senator Gold: Sure.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Arnot, I’m very sorry that I have to interrupt you.

(At 9 p.m., pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on February 21, 2022, the Senate adjourned until 9 a.m., tomorrow.)

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question and for your confidence in my respect for different views, which I do have.

The Prime Minister was really clear, as recently as yesterday, in drawing a sharp distinction between political dialogue of sharply opposing views, even angry dialogue, and actions that threaten the security and safety of individuals in the country and that persist even after they are declared illegal.

With regard to the financing issue, I have been clear in this chamber, as a representative of the government, that the position of the government and the reading of the act and the regulations is that only if you continue to fund illegal activities after February 15 are you at risk of having your bank account frozen. People were warned, and if they stayed and continued, either to engage in these activities, for whatever reasons, ideological or other, they have broken the law and are subject to that possible sanction.

Again, I repeat that, of the thousands and thousands of donations that were made for many weeks prior to the proclamation of a state of emergency, only 200 — the number may very well be growing since I last got the number — but only a few hundred initiatives were taken, as the government stated, focusing on those organizing or contributing significantly or accumulating the funds to continue to be used to support the illegal activity.

Senator Carignan: I am raising a point of order. The senator said that I said the G20 was a success even though it involved repression and police brutality. I never said it was a success. I want to make sure that it does not say anywhere on the record that I said that the G20 was a success. I simply said that it was an example of a time when police services worked together.

Senator LaBoucane-Benson: You mentioned the opinion of premiers in Canada. Mike Farnworth, B.C.’s Minister of Public Safety, stated:

British Columbia’s view is that if the federal government believes that it needs emergency powers to deal with the situation that we are seeing — for example, in the capital of Ottawa and the challenges and the convoy protests that have been holding Ontario and the rest of the country to economic hostage — that we are supportive of the measures that he feels he needs to deal with the situation back east.

I wonder if that might change your perspective on the opinions of premiers, dear colleague.

Senator Housakos: I did get up on a question. You are not the Speaker last time I checked.

The question here, government leader, is very simple. Do you agree with Prime Minister Trudeau that any parliamentarian, and anybody who took the time to listen to these protesters, to take their calls, to meet with them, that we are Nazis and we are supporters of the swastika? Is that a view you share, the view that the Prime Minister has expressed publicly and refuses to apologize for?