Senator Gold: Sure.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Arnot, I’m very sorry that I have to interrupt you.

(At 9 p.m., pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on February 21, 2022, the Senate adjourned until 9 a.m., tomorrow.)

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question and for your confidence in my respect for different views, which I do have.

The Prime Minister was really clear, as recently as yesterday, in drawing a sharp distinction between political dialogue of sharply opposing views, even angry dialogue, and actions that threaten the security and safety of individuals in the country and that persist even after they are declared illegal.

With regard to the financing issue, I have been clear in this chamber, as a representative of the government, that the position of the government and the reading of the act and the regulations is that only if you continue to fund illegal activities after February 15 are you at risk of having your bank account frozen. People were warned, and if they stayed and continued, either to engage in these activities, for whatever reasons, ideological or other, they have broken the law and are subject to that possible sanction.

Again, I repeat that, of the thousands and thousands of donations that were made for many weeks prior to the proclamation of a state of emergency, only 200 — the number may very well be growing since I last got the number — but only a few hundred initiatives were taken, as the government stated, focusing on those organizing or contributing significantly or accumulating the funds to continue to be used to support the illegal activity.

Senator Carignan: I am raising a point of order. The senator said that I said the G20 was a success even though it involved repression and police brutality. I never said it was a success. I want to make sure that it does not say anywhere on the record that I said that the G20 was a success. I simply said that it was an example of a time when police services worked together.

Senator LaBoucane-Benson: You mentioned the opinion of premiers in Canada. Mike Farnworth, B.C.’s Minister of Public Safety, stated:

British Columbia’s view is that if the federal government believes that it needs emergency powers to deal with the situation that we are seeing — for example, in the capital of Ottawa and the challenges and the convoy protests that have been holding Ontario and the rest of the country to economic hostage — that we are supportive of the measures that he feels he needs to deal with the situation back east.

I wonder if that might change your perspective on the opinions of premiers, dear colleague.

Senator Housakos: I did get up on a question. You are not the Speaker last time I checked.

The question here, government leader, is very simple. Do you agree with Prime Minister Trudeau that any parliamentarian, and anybody who took the time to listen to these protesters, to take their calls, to meet with them, that we are Nazis and we are supporters of the swastika? Is that a view you share, the view that the Prime Minister has expressed publicly and refuses to apologize for?

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Carignan, are you asking for five more minutes to answer a question?

Hon. Jane Cordy: Honourable senators, I speak to you today from the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe peoples. I want to thank Senator Gold for the hours he spent answering questions today — maintaining his composure throughout — and, of course, to thank his team, because all of us have amazing teams behind us.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Bovey, it is six o’clock. You can resume your speech when we return. In accordance with the order, I must leave the chair for the one-hour dinner break.

We will adjourn until seven o’clock.

(The sitting of the Senate was suspended.)

(The sitting of the Senate was resumed.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gold, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson:

That, pursuant to section 58 of the Emergencies Act, the Senate confirm the declaration of a public order emergency proclaimed on February 14, 2022.

Senator Plett: We’ll be nice. We’ll stop pretty soon.

Senator Carignan: Again, I refer you to section 129 of the Criminal Code, which would have allowed charges to be laid against the tow truck operators who were refusing to do their job. My question is on funding and the seizure of bank accounts. How did seizing bank accounts help the police remove the trucks from Wellington Street more quickly?

Hon. Denise Batters: Senator Gold, when Prime Minister Trudeau announced that he was invoking the Emergencies Act, he told Canadians that it would be in a “geographically targeted way” applicable only to those within the zone specified. However, we see in reality the federal government’s massive overreach in the proclamation that declares a public order emergency which states that the public order will apply “throughout Canada.” This country has the second-largest land mass in the world, Senator Gold. How is declaring a public order emergency throughout Canada possibly geographically targeted? If you’ll properly admit that it isn’t, why did Prime Minister Trudeau misinform Canadians in this way?

Senator Plett: “Only a few hundred,” you say. You have said that a number of times today, like these 200 people are insignificant.

There were only a few — a very, very few — people in Ottawa at any time that were flying a Confederate flag or possibly promoting a swastika. Only a very, very few. And yet, you have constantly, leader, been referring to those few as being the “leaders of this movement.” It seems that when it serves your purpose, 200 people having their bank accounts frozen is somewhat insignificant, and it’s “only” 200. But if it’s only 2 or 5 or 10 out of hundreds of thousands of people that were part of this protest across the country, that is very significant. I find that strange.

Leader, the Prime Minister called these people a “fringe” group, called them “racist” and he called them “misogynistic,” from when they left Vancouver all the way through to here. That’s what they were. I find this so difficult, leader. I am wanting to give you the benefit of the doubt. I have, quite frankly, given up with the rest of the government, but I still would like to give you the benefit of the doubt that we still are living in a society where everybody’s views are appreciated and respected if they are not racist and, indeed, misogynistic. But just because Justin Trudeau says they are, doesn’t make it so, leader.

Clearly, I am not going to get a clear answer on that issue as we haven’t been getting very clear answers on many issues here today. I am going to ask you another question.

An Hon. Senator: What’s the question?

Senator Plett: Well, I will ask that, sir. Instead of me doing this every time somebody says something, I’ll keep on talking, and you can keep on interrupting and I will continue to talk.

And you can continue interrupting, too. I have no problem and I won’t do this.

As we deal with the Emergencies Act and its ramifications, I keep thinking about how our country got to this point, and I keep coming back to how this all started. It began with Canadians protesting — as is absolutely their right to do in any liberal democracy — the Trudeau government’s actions in dealing with COVID-19 and this government’s inability to follow the science and bring forward a plan to end the mandates.

Now, without question — you have said it, others have said it, and we all agree — we are tired. We fight amongst friends. We fight amongst families. We have differences of opinion. Some family members believe you should be vaccinated. Others believe there is a conspiracy theory. We all, I’m sure, every one of us, at least knows people, if they aren’t in your own families. So we are tired of that. We recognize that.

But that doesn’t make Canadians bad people when they say, “I’m tired of this. I’m tired of this government telling me what to do.”

Senator Gold, Canadians would like to understand what exactly the Trudeau government believes is the difference between a legal protest and an illegal protest. When did this protest become illegal? Was it when Justin Trudeau decided it was illegal? Senator McPhedran made a good point that for the longest time the trucks were held at bay. When did it become illegal? Was it when all of a sudden they moved the blockades and let trucks in? Who did that?

At what point does a legal protest become an illegal protest in the eyes of Justin Trudeau?

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. Look, I have been advised that there were conversations and an engagement with some banks in the course of this, but I do not have the details, Senator Loffreda, so I don’t want to state more than I know.

But only to say — of course I’m speaking to you as someone with as much experience in banking as most of us in the chamber, with very few exceptions — that the banks in this particular instance, although charged with an additional responsibility to review and share information, nonetheless have the competency to do it and the desire to do it, to assist our efforts as a country, to make sure that illegal funds do not support illegal activities.

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: Would Senator Gold take a question?

Hon. Robert Black: Will Senator Gold take another question?

Senator Boehm: It took one year.