Senator Housakos: Thank you, Your Honour.

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Harder, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Bellemare, for the second reading of Bill S-2, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts.

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Leader of the Opposition): Back to Bill S-2, colleagues. As I was saying earlier, there was unanimous agreement on this bill by all leadership sides at the end of the last Parliament. Again, we understand the principle behind this. We all recognize this place is in a fluid situation and it is changing. Of course, these amendments to the Parliament of Canada Act reflect those changes. I think for the benefit of time it’s completely unnecessary to bog down this chamber. We already have limited time in order to debate our private members’ bills, our motions and try to get through more important government legislation. For the benefit of saving that time, I do not think we should become repetitive and conduct our business in such a way that it unnecessarily delays the rest of the Order Paper.

Honourable senators, I ask for leave that the bill be read a second time.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

(At 8:57 p.m., the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 2 p.m.)

Hon. René Cormier moved second reading of Bill C-4, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conversion therapy).

He said: Dear colleagues, I am feeling emotional as I rise today to begin debate at second reading of Bill C-4, which proposes to prohibit conversion therapy, an odious practice that stigmatizes and discriminates against lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and two-spirit communities.

This practice is harmful for those subjected to it and detrimental to society in general. Pseudo-therapies that perpetuate stereotypes and myths have no place in Canadian society.

Although these interventions are often called conversion “therapies,” there is nothing therapeutic about them. They are based on the premise that LGBTQ2+ individuals can and must change, and they often take insidious forms.

For those who still doubt that this harmful practice takes place in our country, the results of the 2019-20 Sex Now Survey show that approximately 10% of men belonging to a sexual minority who responded to the survey had been subjected to conversion therapy in Canada.

This survey also found that exposure to these destructive practices was greater among non-binary and transgender individuals, immigrants, youth and low-income persons.

In most cases, the conversion therapy was experienced in religious settings, and in other cases, it was considered health care. Esteemed colleagues, conversion therapy is a real thing, it is harmful and it is still going on in our country.

For decades, the LGBTQ2+ community, especially those who have survived this type of therapy, has been bravely and assiduously advocating for an end to this wrong-headed practice. The time has finally come to respond and to protect adults and children.

Bill C-4 includes enhanced versions of the protections proposed in the former Bill C-6, which was introduced in the previous Parliament, and it sends a clear and necessary message. No form of conversion therapy will be tolerated in Canada.

I would be remiss if I did not mention the emotional reaction many Canadians had when this bill was unanimously passed in the other place on December 1.

Although we were startled by how quickly it was passed, the solidarity shown in that place speaks to the values we cherish as Canadians: equality, dignity and respect for all, regardless of our differences.

Bill C-4 represents another step in the long process to have the rights of the LGBTQ2+ community recognized in Canada.

From the partial decriminalization of homosexuality in 1969 to the passage of Bill C-23 in 2000, which gave same-sex couples the same social and tax benefits as heterosexual couples in common-law relationships, the Civil Marriage Act in 2005, which made same-sex marriage legal across Canada, Bill C-16 in 2017, which added gender identity and gender expression as prohibited grounds for discrimination under the Canadian Human Rights Act, and Bill C-66 in 2018, a bill that I had the privilege of sponsoring in the Senate and that expunges historically unjust convictions against people in the LGBTQ2+ communities, our country has reached important milestones in upholding the fundamental rights and dignity of all citizens.

It would take several legislative attempts to get to this bill, and for that, allow me to salute our former colleague, retired senator Serge Joyal, who introduced Bill S-260 in this chamber during the Forty-second Parliament, bringing this issue to the attention of his parliamentary colleagues.

Today it is up to us to carry the torch by taking a careful and thorough look at Bill C-4, showing empathy and working diligently so that all Canadians, regardless of their age, sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression, can love the person of their choice, be free to be loved themselves and live their truth in safety.

[English]

Bill C-4 is specifically designed to protect the dignity and equality of LGBTQ2+ Canadians by ending conversion therapy in Canada. It would do so by criminalizing conversion therapy in all settings, regardless of age or consent. Although former Bill C-6 would have comprehensively protected children, it would only have protected adults from forced conversion therapy and prohibited the commercialization of the practice. Bill C-4’s comprehensive approach is intended to target the different types of harms that conversion therapy poses. These harms can manifest themselves at the individual level, including for persons who had consented to undergo conversion practices.

The research about the harms of conversion therapy stemming from Canada and the U.S. clearly identifies its devastating outcomes for individuals, including feelings of shame, isolation, anxiety, depression, problematic substance use and suicidality. For example, the 2019 American Trevor Project National Survey on LGBTQ Youth Mental Health found that 57% of transgender and non-binary youth who have undergone conversion therapy report a suicide attempt in the last year.

Canadian and international professional associations have denounced these practices. To name a few: the World Health Organization, the United Nations Committee Against Torture, the Committee on the Rights of the Child, the Human Rights Committee, the Canadian Psychiatric Association, the Canadian Psychological Association, l’Ordre professionnel des sexologues du Québec, and the Canadian Association of Social Workers were clear about these practices. They are dangerous.

I would also like to bring to your attention the testimonies of the courageous individuals who appeared in the other place during the study of former Bill C-6. Their words are revealing. They said that the harms of conversion therapy are serious, regardless of age or consent, and that the best way to protect against them is to totally ban the practice. We need to listen to them, colleagues.

There is ample evidence of the harmful effects on victims of conversion therapy, but let us not forget that the effects of these discriminatory practices are also manifested on a larger societal scale. Indeed, the very existence of conversion therapy practices is harmful to the dignity and equality of LGBTQ2+ communities, because these practices posit that there is something fundamentally wrong with LGBTQ2+ individuals, and that they should change who they are, who they love, and how they express themselves to arrive at a sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression that some believe is preferable.

[Translation]

This premise is inherently discriminatory and harmful, not only to LGBTQ2+ communities, but also to society in general, because we are all diminished by practices that undermine the equality and dignity of every member of our society.

One way to end practices based on such a hurtful and discriminatory premise is to prohibit them altogether, regardless of whether an individual grants consent.

This is not an unusual or inappropriate role for criminal law. The federal Parliament has the jurisdiction to criminalize a legitimate public health harm. In this case, the evidence is overwhelming. Conversion therapy is deeply harmful.

Banning conversion therapy, when the recipient is a consenting adult, naturally raises questions about compliance with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The idea of conversion therapy may be linked to religious beliefs for some people, while others may believe that they should have the freedom to choose the interventions they feel would benefit them.

However, the well-documented harms, as well as the prevalence of conversion therapy practices among vulnerable members of an already marginalized community, support the decision for a complete ban on these practices.

[English]

To this, I would add that we cannot ignore the notable movement on the international scene that points to an emerging consensus about conversion therapy’s harms and legal responses to prohibit it, such as those proposed in this bill.

The UN Independent Expert on protection against violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity released his report entitled Practices of so-called “conversion therapy” in the spring of 2020.

That report found that the best way to address conversion therapy’s harms is to ban the practice from being advertised and carried out in all settings, whether public or private, including education, community or religious settings. In particular, the UN Independent Expert’s report describes the practices of conversion therapy as “. . . deeply harmful interventions that rely on the medically false idea that LGBT and other gender diverse persons are sick . . . .”

The report also notes that these practices inflict severe pain and suffering and result in long-lasting psychological and physical damage.

Colleagues, let me quote two passages from this report:

All practices attempting conversion are inherently humiliating, demeaning and discriminatory. The combined effects of feeling powerless and extreme humiliation generate profound feelings of shame, guilt, self-disgust, and worthlessness, which can result in a damaged self-concept and enduring personality changes.

These practices also violate the prohibition of torture and ill-treatment, since they take point of departure in the belief that sexually diverse or gender-diverse persons are somehow inferior – morally, spiritually or physically – than their heterosexual and cisgender siblings and must modify their orientation or identity to remedy that inferiority. Therefore, any means and mechanisms that treat LGBT persons as lesser human beings are degrading by their very definition and may amount to torture depending on the circumstances, namely the severity of physical and mental pain and suffering inflicted.

[Translation]

In addition to the UN Independent Expert’s report, several countries are studying or have adopted mechanisms to ban conversion therapy.

The Australian Capital Territory recently passed legislation criminalizing the practice of conversion therapy on minors and people with impaired decision-making ability.

France has also introduced a bill to ban conversion therapy practices that affect a person’s mental or physical health.

This summer, a bill was introduced in New Zealand that would make it an offence to perform conversion therapy on a minor or a person who lacks decision-making capacity and to perform a conversion practice on anyone if it causes serious harm. Serious harm is defined as:

 . . . any physical, psychological, or emotional harm that seriously and detrimentally affects the health, safety, or welfare of the individual.

Consent would not be a defence against either proposed offence.

In addition, the British government is currently holding public consultations on a proposal to criminalize certain aspects of conversion therapy, particularly in the form of “talking conversion therapy,” as well as physical acts conducted in the name of conversion therapy.

Lastly, senators will recall that Malta was the first nation to criminalize conversion therapy on “vulnerable persons,” which includes people under the age of 16.

In Canada, various provinces, one territory and several municipalities have done their part in their respective jurisdictions.

The Yukon, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island have enacted legislation specifying that conversion therapy is not an insured health service and banning health care professionals, and in some cases everyone, from providing treatment in specific circumstances. Manitoba has issued a position statement against these practices.

Municipalities such as Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, St. Albert, Lethbridge, Saskatoon, Regina and Kingston have answered the call by prohibiting businesses from offering conversion therapy within their city limits.

Dear colleagues, these Canadian and international steps add momentum to the movement to ban conversion therapy. They send a clear message that our country is more than ready to put an end to such practices and that the approach of Bill C-4, which consists of using criminal law to completely ban this harmful practice in all settings and disciplines, is neither unique nor inappropriate.

[English]

I would now like to discuss the definition of conversion therapy included in Bill C-4 since it impacts the scope of all four of the bill’s proposed offences.

Bill C-4 defines “conversion therapy” as a “practice, treatment or service,” which I will collectively refer to as an intervention, that is designed to achieve one of the six prohibited objectives:

(a) change a person’s sexual orientation to heterosexual;

(b) change a person’s gender identity to cisgender;

(c) change a person’s gender expression so that it conforms to the sex assigned to the person at birth;

(d) repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction or sexual behaviour;

(e) repress a person’s non-cisgender gender identity; or

(f) repress or reduce a person’s gender expression that does not conform to the sex assigned to the person at birth.

Specifying that interventions designed to repress or reduce non-heteronormative or non-cisnormative feelings or behaviour as being “conversion therapy” responds to concerns that conversion therapy providers could seek to avoid criminal liability by hiding behind a thinly veiled argument that their efforts are intended to reduce or repress certain forms of feelings or expression, not change who a person is.

The definition also includes a very important “for greater certainty” clause, which clarifies that interventions aimed at helping a person explore or develop their integrated personal identity are not conversion therapy if they are not based on the assumption that a particular sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression is to be preferred over another. Again, this clause protects legitimate supportive practices, services and treatments and not conversion therapy practices purporting to help an individual change a fundamental aspect of their identity under the guise of identity development or reconciliation therapy.

This clause also clarifies that gender transition interventions, those steps that would be chosen and taken by a person to live more in accordance with their gender identity or expression, are not conversion therapies.

In the previous Parliament, concerns were expressed that former Bill C-6’s definition, which was substantively the same as that proposed by Bill C-4, was vague and may capture mere conversations about sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. I would like to address this concern directly and explain why I do not share it.

This bill’s definition contains two separate components, both of which must be met. First, the conduct must constitute an intervention or, in the precise words of the bill, a “practice, treatment or service.” Those terms have a clear, literal meaning that imply established, structured or formalized interventions that are generally offered to the public or a segment of the public. Second, an intervention must also be designed to achieve one of the definition’s prohibited purposes: namely, to impose heteronormative or cisnormative standards on the individual subjected to it.

This approach to defining “conversion therapy” is entirely appropriate and consistent with the bill’s important objectives of protecting LGBTQ2+ persons from interventions that discriminate against them.

[Translation]

The definition was carefully tailored to target only interventions that cause harm because they are based on the premise that heteronormative and cisnormative identities and expressions are to be preferred over other identities and expressions.

Bill C-4 would also protect all Canadians from the commercialization of the practice by prohibiting anyone from receiving some benefit from conversion therapy or promoting or advertising it. It also provides an extra layer of protection for children by targeting people who want to remove them from the country to have them undergo conversion therapy.

Esteemed colleagues, this bill clearly amends the Criminal Code to create the following offences. Charges may be laid against those who knowingly cause another person to undergo conversion therapy, including by providing conversion therapy to that other person; those who knowingly promote or advertise conversion therapy; those who receive a financial or other material benefit, knowing that it is obtained or derived directly or indirectly from the provision of conversion therapy; and those who remove a child under 18 from the country to subject that child to conversion therapy.

Exactly what Bill C-4 would ban was carefully drafted to include only harmful practices aimed at changing someone’s identity, based on the discriminatory premise that certain sexual orientations and gender identities and expressions are less desirable than others.

It does not include supportive interventions or the mere expression of beliefs about sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. Furthermore, the proposed approach does not prevent individuals from making their own choices about how to express their gender identity or sexual orientation. It only addresses interventions that are designed to change an individual’s identity.

The approach taken in Bill C-4 may seem bold, but a comprehensive ban is the best way to achieve the important goal of protecting LGBTQ2+ individuals and communities from the harms and discrimination that result from conversion therapy.

Colleagues, I personally am proud that Canada is showing leadership on this issue. Indeed, this bill would place Canada at the forefront of the international community. Passing it here in this country would make a difference for all Canadians, of course, but when we think of the victims of these practices around the world, we can easily imagine the impact it would have on the international stage.

[English]

Canadians value diversity; we know that. We want a country that respects the differences between us. That is the very aspect of Canada that defines us. In Canada, everyone should feel safe to be who they are.

I know we are all committed to realizing Bill C-4’s overarching objective of protecting the dignity and equality of all Canadians. This bill reflects our fundamental Canadian values, as articulated in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I know that we all agree that Canada should be a place where diversity is celebrated, not reviled — a place where everyone can live in equality and freedom.

[Translation]

Honourable colleagues, this bill is not one of opposition. It does not seek to cast judgment on individual religious beliefs. It does not seek to prevent parents who care about their children’s health and happiness from having conversations with them.

Nor does it seek to prohibit teachers from talking about sexual orientation and gender identity with their students. Above all, it seeks full recognition for the fundamental right of each and every person to live in dignity.

After doing some research and investigation into the matter, and thinking about the more than 47,000 men who have undergone conversion therapy in Canada, as reported in the Sex Now Survey that I mentioned earlier, I look forward to us being able to study and pass Bill C-4 in a timely manner.

To close on a more personal note, I would like to say that fortunately, there are many people in Canada who have not experienced conversion therapy. Thanks to the support of their communities, some individuals did not have to make these painful choices. People going through the process of accepting their sexual orientation or gender identity experience some dark and tortured times. Wanting to end their suffering becomes their only thought.

When I was 19 years old, I was so distraught, I could have ended up dying by suicide or undergoing conversion therapy like many others. The inner torment was overwhelming, and the fear of rejection was so real. Fortunately, I am here today thanks to my family, my community and my friends, who supported me without judgment as I came to accept who I was. I am so grateful to everyone who helped me.

Esteemed colleagues, today my thoughts are with the victims of conversion therapy, those who survived and had the courage to share their stories and those who, sadly, did not survive these terrible, discriminatory practices.

As legislators, let’s ensure that anyone who is dealing with these agonizing choices has the opportunity to live a full life. Let’s pass Bill C-4 so these people are not pushed into anything that could have a disastrous impact on them.

Human Rights Day is in a few days, and I urge all of us to work together, as I know we can do, to study and pass Bill C-4 as quickly as possible so that everyone living in this country can be protected and loved for who they are, as human beings asking only to live, love, be happy and contribute to society.

Thank you. Wela’lin. Meegwetch.

[English]

Hon. Mary Jane McCallum: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak to Bill S-210, An Act to restrict young persons’ online access to sexually explicit material. I want to thank Senator Miville-Dechêne as this bill’s sponsor for her important work on this matter.

This is a timely and much needed piece of legislation as there is an insidious relationship that exists between pornography and human trafficking. The catalyst of this relationship is the dangerous consumption of pornography by males/females that can lead those individuals to seek to fulfill their own desires through unsavoury means. These unsavoury means include human trafficking, a horrific activity that captures countless Indigenous girls and women in its clutches.

We must address the issue of pornography through an upstream form of intervention, such as Bill S-210. If we fail to do so, the supply-and-demand relationship of sex trafficking wherein porn is one root cause will continue to drive this process of violence and abuse. When the previous Bill C-45 on marijuana legalization was passed, one of our senators asked a gang member what the gangs would do now that this would decrease their revenue. Their response was: We’re not worried. Sex trafficking does not require the upkeep that marijuana does. One trafficker will bring in $250,000 per year with very little upkeep.

Honourable senators, I want to acknowledge our colleague Dr. Yvonne Boyer and Peggy Kampouris who published a May 2014 report entitled Trafficking of Aboriginal Women and Girls. Most of the material I will bring forth comes from that research report.

The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime defines human trafficking as any situation in which:

. . . force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, abuse of power or vulnerability, or giving payments or benefits to a person in control . . .

— are used to exploit another person. If any of these qualifiers are present, it’s human trafficking.

In the article Unequal Communities: Exploring the Relationship between Colonialism, Patriarchy and the Marginalization of Aboriginal Women by Jessica Stark, she states:

Since the entrenchment of the Indian Act, the Canadian state has subjected First Nation communities to a lifestyle of dependency where they have been forced to accept and internalize its colonial and patriarchal components. . . . Studies have found women to be particularly vulnerable to this oppression.

Honourable senators, the Indian Act constructed areas of marginalization and vulnerability for First Nations, and these have become the breeding ground for further abuse, including trafficking.

In her 2016 article, Red Intersectionality and Violence-informed Witnessing Praxis, author Natalie Clark speaks on the “emergent diversity of Indigenous girlhood” and the “construction of Indigenous girls through the Indian Act.” She states:

Red intersectionality . . . helps us to understand and address violence against Indigenous girls since it foregrounds context, which in Canada’s case has to include gendered forms of colonialism, and the dispossession of Indigenous lands.

She continues:

Applying a Red intersectional analysis to trauma and girls requires us to consider how the so-called trauma industry —

— including residential school —

— has continued a colonial legacy of labeling and pathologizing Indigenous girls that manages their behaviour through criminalization, medication, and talk therapy programs which ultimately serve “to reinforce a sense of powerlessness and undermine women’s ability-to-to resist.”

In relation to this, Senator Dr. Yvonne Boyer and Peggy Kampouris state:

This study found that sexual exploitation and human trafficking does not occur in isolation but does occur through a number of pathways due to a myriad of related socialeconomic determinants. Family members, gangs and friends recruit through different types of financial and psychological coercion, as well as physical violence. It is because Aboriginal women and girls are subject to poverty, low self-esteem, addictions, mental health issues and poor health, that they are particularly vulnerable to becoming the victims of human trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation.

Honourable senators, one of the consequences of pornography addiction is that it creates the demand that leads people to perpetuate sex trafficking. How have we ended up in a world where certain people can connect to make a pathway from the world of porn addiction to sex trafficking? This linkage sees the vulnerable child, girl or woman as a possible source of money and exploitation. Why has society created and sustained this world of vulnerability and abuse? Simply put, sex trafficking is one of the most unjust and horrific consequences of porn consumption.

How does this process of trafficking start? Who is targeted and how are they groomed, whether they are seekers of porn on the internet or vulnerable young people who have no stability, security or protection, such as children in care or Indigenous women and girls?

Just as dehumanizing behaviours in domestic violence normalizes dominance, violence, abuse and objectification, there is also a connection to these acts to love, relationship and intimacy. The intertwining of such varied emotions sets the stage for eventual acceptance of violence and aggression in relationships as normal. The presence of domestic violence causes women, children and men to live under threat.

Honourable senators, when is porn no longer enough, and how do trafficked women and girls get involved with traffickers? In the study noted above, a law enforcement participant clarified that:

. . . the pimps are “street level pimps” who subject Aboriginal women and girls to a systemic process of “baiting, grooming, conning and exploitation that often turns into violence and brutality.”

The study goes on to say pimps often provide drugs and alcohol and:

. . . get the victim hooked on opiates so the victim is more easily controlled and then dependent upon the drug and the pimp.

The study also states:

. . . there is always a connection to residential schools in the past . . . This subject matter expert considers the fact that girls and women have had a relative in residential schools as an indicator of vulnerability and a marker of high risk of being trafficked. . . . the recruitment of victims of trafficking in Aboriginal communities is often done by girls who have previously been recruited. For instance, the Children’s Aid Society, young offender centres and group homes, often provide venues for older girls to recruit younger girls connected to them in a family or kinship sense.

Honourable senators, what are the compounding effects and consequences of porn and human trafficking? This activity causes destruction to the lives of those exploited and their families, the costs of which can be linked to the inadequate resources of police enforcement to deal with trafficking as well as the inability of prosecutors and judges to adequately address those issues related to porn and trafficking.

A support agency in Alberta observed that very few of the Aboriginal human trafficking cases that have come to their attention have gone to the court or entered the legal system, stating:

The needs of Aboriginal women and girls who have been, or are being, sexually exploited, go beyond what most support agencies can provide. . . . In addition to immediate medical care, trauma and/or addictions counselling, victimized women and girls often require safe housing, education, additional life skills, sustainable work, mental health supports, culturally-appropriate and safe health care and a coordinated and complete approach to service delivery.

There was exposure to violence from pimps:

. . . who, over the years, had burned their feet, broken their nose, beaten them with an untwisted coat hanger, broken their fingers and jumped on their pregnant abdomen to cause miscarriages. . . . They also noted that one way the pimp had control over them was by controlling their menstrual cycle by directing them to use of birth control pills so they could continue working.

Further:

Physical and mental abuse are routine occurrences . . . Vivid descriptions were provided by one subject matter expert, “Men want to act out what they have seen in the porn industry. The women and girls are tortured, drugged, mentally abused, tied up, pregnant, forced to have abortions, electrocuted, starved, and live in bad conditions. They are cut, raped and raped with objects, they are suffocated and forced to watch violence.”

According to the research:

A number of participants believed that the trafficking of Aboriginal women and girls was part of a wider “Canadian crisis.”

Honourable senators, another troubling piece of research on the reality of human trafficking of Indigenous girls and women surrounds the Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act in Nunavut. This law recognizes the custom of adoption where children move between families and extended families more fluidly.

According to one subject matter expert:

. . . there are a large number of Inuit babies and children being adopted out of Nunavut, stating that “babies are a valuable commodity.” . . . This subject matter expert also recalled that they believe that, “at last count, 100 babies have been sent out of the territories to non-Inuit families.”

It was cautioned, though:

that once predators (pedophiles, johns, or pimps) become (if they are not already) aware of easy access to children, this could pose a potential problem. . . . A support organization in Nunavut also identified a potential link between adoptions in Nunavut and the vulnerability for children —

— including infants —

— to be trafficked.

This adoption out of community resembles the Sixties Scoop where Indigenous children were adopted out to White families. In the United States and Canada, many of these children were sexually abused.

Honourable senators, participants in this aforementioned study identified human trafficking as a ghost crime, adding that people do not report this type of crime.

A police officer in B.C. was quoted as saying:

“A number of years ago, when I did investigate files, in hindsight, I should have been laying human trafficking charges, but I wasn’t aware of the subject at the time.”

A southern Ontario officer stated “Human trafficking is far more prevalent than people realize. . . . It will become more prevalent because of social media.”

An officer from a western province noted “As Police, we’re standing on the tracks and can see it coming for many years.”

Honourable senators, every young child has the right to live a life unmarred by violence. Indigenous children, through residential school, day schools and the Sixties Scoop which are all forms of human extraction from their natural habitat and consequent institutionalization and based on the same concepts of human trafficking: assimilation, grooming and economic benefit.

These young children had lost their right to a life unmarred by violence, and that loss must never be forgotten. It should also be enough of a catalyst to prompt an immediate resolution before more Indigenous women and girls fall prey to this unspeakable activity.

As Senator Miville-Dechêne stated in her November 24 media release:

Parents and pediatricians are asking for help and it is high time parliamentarians supported them. It is about the protection and safety of our young people.

Colleagues, we, as parliamentarians, should do all we can in working towards a resolution of the issue of sex trafficking. A first step to this is beginning to break the link that exists between pornography and human trafficking, which Bill S-210 will do.

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, Bill C-4 is a bill that has been turned into a controversial political football, unfortunately. I want to rise, colleagues, to point out that in the last Parliament we received the predecessor to Bill C-4, of course, on the eve of the government adjourning for an unnecessary election. The government, on a number of occasions, has said that the LGBTQ2 community is very important to them. So important that, of course, six years went by and, of course, this bill was not initiated until it was tabled in the House, again at quarter to midnight before Parliament rose for the general election.

I want to say this: No community — not the LGBTQ community, not any Canadians — deserves to be treated as a political prop or for political expediency. That’s not the Canadian way.

I can say this: The community has been heard. It was heard by the House of Commons. And, of course, we saw the House of Commons do the right thing a number of days ago and pass this piece of legislation unanimously. They did so because they thought it was in the national interest to do so.

Colleagues, we already have government business before committees in this place. We only have a week left before we traditionally rise for the break. We have Bill C-3 that’s already in pre-study before the Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs. There is a series of private members’ bills, as I mentioned earlier, and motions that many parliamentarians in this chamber want to get to.

I think we have to develop the reflex in this institution that, when something is in the universal interest and public interest, we not create unnecessary duplication and engage in unnecessary debates. Furthermore, I don’t think we should be using any issue as a political prop or make it divisive. We should be, as an institution, working to bring all Canadians together.

Therefore, honourable senators, with the consent of the chamber, I ask for leave that the bill be read a second time. Thank you, colleagues.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate), pursuant to notice of December 2, 2021, moved:

That, notwithstanding any provision of the Rules or usual practice:

1.the Senate invite any minister of the Crown who is not a member of the Senate to attend the Senate at least once every second week that the Senate sits, during Question Period at a time and on a date to be determined by the Government Representative in the Senate, after consultation with the Leader of the Opposition and the leaders and facilitators of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups, and take part in proceedings by responding to questions relating to their ministerial responsibilities, subject to the rules and orders then in force, including those relating to hybrid sittings, if the Senate is then holding such sittings, except that neither senators when asking questions nor the minister when answering need stand;

2.the Government Representative in the Senate, in consultation with the Leader of the Opposition, and the leaders and facilitators of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups, determine the minister to appear during such Question Period;

3.at the beginning of Orders of the Day, the Government Representative in the Senate or the Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate inform the Senate, as soon as possible in advance, of the time and date for Question Period with a minister, and the designated minister, but no later than the sitting day that would precede the day on which the minister would appear;

4.senators only have up to one minute to ask a question, and ministers have up to one minute and thirty seconds to respond, with this process continuing until the time for Question Period expires; and

5.the Question Period last a maximum of 60 minutes.

He said: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak briefly to government Motion No. 7, which will re-establish a process for a minister to participate in the Senate’s Question Period every second Senate sitting week.

While I deeply regret that this motion will relieve me, from time to time, of the pleasure of attempting to answer your questions, I am most happy to propose it because it constitutes yet another step in restoring a sense of normalcy to the Senate’s operations. I am also pleased to propose this motion because it establishes a new format for ministerial Question Period that is based upon meaningful consultation and agreement with the leadership of all groups and informed by the Senate’s extensive experience hosting ministers in this chamber over the course of two Parliaments.

So while this may be a government motion, as is so often the case, it bears the fingerprints of all groups.

For example, the Progressive Senate Group proposed that the motion specify that ministerial Question Period be held every second week in order to ensure some regularity for ministerial Question Period while maintaining some flexibility on the specific dates.

In addition, it was quite important to the opposition in the Senate that the questions of senators and the answers of ministers be subject to time constraints so that more senators may have the opportunity to ask questions. On the other hand, it was important to us in the Government Representative Office that the Senate’s ministerial Question Period not simply be a mimic of that which takes place in the other place, where the length of time for questions and answers is limited to 35 seconds. We felt that would not suit the Senate’s historic identity as a more sober and less politically charged environment.

What we have before us, one minute for questions and one minute and 30 seconds for answers, is a reasonable approach that balances the various legitimate concerns around the leadership table.

[Translation]

With respect to the process, under the terms of this motion, I commit to consulting my colleagues extensively to determine which ministers should be invited to Question Period in the Senate, and I will prioritize their appearance accordingly.

[English]

I would note that Senator Harder, during his time as Government Representative — and you look very good in that chair, Senator Harder — successfully ensured that senators were satisfied with the timing and identity of the ministers appearing before this chamber. I am absolutely committed to doing the same.

Colleagues, this innovation of having ministers appear on a regular basis has proven beneficial for both senators, who have had the opportunity to ask direct questions relating to the specific responsibilities of the minister, and to the ministers, who have become better acquainted with the priorities of their Senate colleagues.

While Canada, and, indeed, the world, is still battling COVID-19, we recognize that the business of governing the country does not stop. This motion demonstrates to Canadians a new level of cooperation between our chambers.

Outside of the legislative work being undertaken, the practice of holding ministers’ Question Period in the Senate has given us the opportunity to pose questions relating to the portfolios of ministers. Ministers’ Question Period will offer senators the opportunity to ask relevant questions, highlight the concerns of their province or region and request information as appropriate.

Therefore, I ask that honourable colleagues pass this motion quickly. As we move into 2022, and before the resumption of Parliament after the holiday break, I would like to be able to begin the invitation process for those ministers that the Senate leadership has chosen to appear before us.

In the past, ministers Question Period has proven to be a mutually beneficial undertaking — not always agreeable for some, ministers or senators perhaps, but as is always the case here in the Red Chamber, a respectful one.

Thank you, colleagues.

Senator Audette: Does that mean we can invite all these important voices to the table, to see how we can change or improve the name of the riding? As I am new to the Senate, I would like to ask the question.

Senator Dalphond: I wasn’t directly involved in the consultations held with officials from the Jardins-de-Napierville RCM. I don’t know exactly who was consulted, other than the mayors and all the other interested parties. I couldn’t tell you any more than that, and I apologize, but I will put this question to Ms. Shanahan.

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: Further to Senator Patterson’s question and regarding the situation of senators who have senatorial districts in Quebec, don’t you find this situation discriminatory, because it requires us to own property? It’s the only province in Canada where this is required. Not only that, but the property must be worth more than $4,000. Couldn’t we use the opportunity of your bill being introduced to study that? I realize that it can be quite complicated to amend the Constitution. I just think this situation is discriminatory toward Quebec senators.

Senator Dalphond: My bill is quite modest and simple. It seeks to remove one word and replace it with three others. It does not seek to amend the Constitution or settle historical debates and historical injustices. I am sorry. It is a modest bill that I am introducing here on behalf of Ms. Shanahan, the member of Parliament. I am pleased that we are taking this opportunity to discuss more important aspects that deserve to be studied and considered in due course.

The answer should come from Senator Patterson. His bill would do this by abolishing the real property qualification, which is essentially obsolete, but I must add that Quebec needs to participate in this exercise.

I know that we may be called upon to amend the 1867 Constitution in response to a request from the National Assembly if Bill 96 passes. Maybe then we could talk more about the Constitution and take the opportunity to talk about other things, but for now, that goes beyond my bill, Senator Dagenais, and I would not want us to get into all that with my bill.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

[English]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Miville-Dechêne, seconded by the Honourable Senator McCallum, for the second reading of Bill S-210, An Act to restrict young persons’ online access to sexually explicit material.

Hon. Rosemary Moodie: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak to Bill S-213, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (independence of the judiciary), a bill that amends the Criminal Code to give judges more discretion not to impose minimum sentences when they consider it just and reasonable.

I would like to begin by thanking my honourable colleague Senator Mobina Jaffer for reintroducing this bill in our new parliamentary session. This bill has been a long-term project of the office of the Honourable Kim Pate since the Forty-second Parliament, and I know Senator Jaffer is the perfect champion to continue this initiative. We owe a debt of gratitude to both of these experienced and dedicated leaders who continue to push for a more just, equitable and inclusive Canada.

Bill S-213 is an essential step forward for our justice system because it addresses the need to restore judicial discretion to our legal system after years of regressive reform. I support the bill because it addresses the human and social costs of imposing mandatory minimum sentences.

Colleagues, as I have said before, we have available to us the results of decades of research, and the evidence is clear: Mandatory minimum sentences do not deter crime, do not reduce recidivism rates, and do not make our communities safer.

Honourable senators, let us discuss and consider this evidence. We can recall that the Supreme Court of Canada, as well as numerous judicial bodies, commissions, parliamentary committees and organizations, have all concluded that mandatory minimum sentences do not deter crime.

We must consider that Canadians are broadly supportive of judicial independence in sentencing. The Department of Justice found in 2018 that Canadians are not supportive of mandatory minimums and prefer a more individualized approach to sentencing. Seventy-seven per cent of Canadians believe, in principle, that applying the same minimum sentence to all offenders convicted of the same crime is not fair or appropriate, and only 16% of Canadians believe that mandatory minimums lead to fair sentencing. Moreover, 90% of Canadians believe that judges should have the flexibility to impose a sentence less than mandatory minimum penalties where reasonable and appropriate, and that they make the best decisions based on the individual elements of a case. Simply put, the plurality of Canadians think that flexibility in sentencing would better address the root causes of crime and make our communities safer by deterring future crime.

Honourable senators, Bill S-213 addresses a significant concern in our judicial system because it brings back into our focus the person, their circumstances and their perspective. In our current system, judges cannot develop a fair sentence based on the individual’s specific circumstances and must impose minimum penalties. However, this system is blind to the implications of the constraint because it is blind to the human, social and financial costs of imposing mandatory minimum sentences.

So, colleagues, what are these costs?

First, we must consider the well-documented systemic racism that is pervasive within our institutions and how Bill S-213 would help address some of the institutional racial inequities in our justice system.

We know that Black and Indigenous offenders are overrepresented in admissions to federal custody. According to data provided by Justice Canada, in 2017, 2.9% of the total Canadian population identified as Black, 4.3% as Indigenous, and 16.2% as other visible minorities. Over a 10-year study period between the fiscal years 2007 and 2017, Indigenous offenders comprised 23% of the federal offender population at admission, while Blacks and other visible minorities comprised about 9% each.

Honourable senators, let us dig deeper into the statistics. Over the 10-year period that Justice Canada considered, the department found that Black and other visible minority offenders were more likely to be admitted to federal custody for an offence punishable by a mandatory minimum penalty. Almost 39% of Black offenders were admitted with a conviction for an offence punishable by a mandatory minimum penalty. For other visible minorities, the rate was about 48%. Not only are visible minorities overrepresented in federal custody, but they are also more likely to be there under a mandatory minimum penalty.

In a statement by the Parliamentary Black Caucus in 2020, BIPOC parliamentarians and civil society came together to speak to this well-documented over-policing and over-incarceration of Black and Indigenous Canadians. Through careful consultation and research, this caucus called for reforms to the justice systems that perpetuate anti-Black racism and systemic bias, specifically through measures like eliminating mandatory minimum sentencing measures.

Beyond the impact on sentencing, mandatory minimum penalties hurt Canadian families, and specifically our children and youth.

A new report published by Campaign 2000 confirmed that one in five children, or 17.7%, lived in poverty in 2019. They note that at this pace, it would take 54 years, or more, to end child poverty. This rate is even higher among racialized and immigrant communities. Even more alarming is that we do not yet have the data to understand the impact of the pandemic, and we continue to observe the widening gaps that have characterized systemic inequities during COVID.

This high poverty rate is of concern, as research demonstrates that poverty has a lifelong impact on educational and occupational opportunities, as well as on the chances for meaningful engagement in society. Moreover, the inequities that arise from poverty can propel vulnerable youth into increased involvement in the criminal justice system as they transition into adulthood. While research is ongoing on how this correlation may contribute to incarceration statistics down the line, it is clear that continuing to rely on mandatory minimum sentencing will continually fail to consider the context and individual circumstances that have led to these offences and perhaps higher rates of future crime.

In fact, in another study conducted by the Department of Justice in 2018, young people noted themselves that two of the essential factors judges should be considering in fair and equitable sentencing are personal circumstances and the history of the accused person. Those who believed in providing flexibility for judges to offer sentencing less than the stated mandatory minimum penalty thought that there are too many personal and contextual circumstances that mandatory minimums do not take into account and could further criminalize vulnerable people. They argued that the criminal justice system should be searching for ways to heal people. This, senators, shows us that the younger generation is searching for a more just, fair and equitable justice system that is responsive to the circumstances of both youth and adults.

Honourable senators, the effects of mandatory minimum sentencing are undeniable and tell a narrative of a system failing to provide justice to Canadians. Our research shows a story of a justice system where racial and ethnic minorities, children and youth are disproportionately represented and affected.

It paints a disturbing picture of systemic inequities that may contribute to increased chances of future crime. It showcases a justice system relying on outdated practices that do not make us safer, do not deter crime and do not decrease recidivism. While criminal reform is a longer and more complex process, we can move it one step forward by passing Bill S-213 and giving our judiciary the ability to exercise discretion in mandatory sentencing to address some of the system’s challenges.

Judicial discretion would allow for the consideration of the impact of incarceration on dependent children and other sectors of our society. Judicial discretion would also give room for the review of reduced or delayed sentencing, where appropriate, and in situations where significant harm could result, such as for dependent children. For this reason, today I stand in support of Bill S-213, which allows our judiciary to move away from mandatory minimum sentencing, where appropriate.

To conclude, I would like to again thank Senator Pate for your leadership and tireless work in starting this journey of reform, and to Senator Jaffer for sponsoring this bill and marching us onward. I would also encourage you, senators, to give serious consideration to the disproportionate impact of mandatory minimum sentences on children and youth in your communities as you consider how to vote on Bill S-213.

Thank you.

Senator Moodie: Senator Boisvenu, I’m referring to past studies — and I’m not going to be specific because I don’t have it in front of me but I can get back to you — that have been done polling Canadians on this matter and that have gathered this information. I can find out that information and send it to you. It’s not here on my sheet of paper.

[Translation]

Hon. Salma Ataullahjan moved second reading of Bill S-223, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (trafficking in human organs).

She said: Honourable senators, I rise today for the second reading of Bill S-223, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (trafficking in human organs). For those of you keeping count, this is my fourth introduction of this bill, and hopefully it will be my last.

Less than six months ago during the last parliamentary session, Bill S-204, an exact copy of this bill, unanimously passed in this chamber. It also received all-party support in the other place, but sadly fell off the Order Paper for reasons out of our control.

Honourable senators, Canadians are desperately asking us to pass this piece of legislation — a culmination of 13 years of parliamentary work — without further delay. For those of you who are not familiar with this bill, I will gladly provide a summary.

Bill S-223 proposes to strengthen Canada’s response to organ trafficking by creating additional Criminal Code offences in relation to such conduct and extends extraterritorial jurisdiction over the new offences. It also seeks to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to provide that a permanent resident or foreign national is inadmissible to Canada if the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration finds that they have engaged in trafficking of human organs.

Currently, there are no laws in Canada banning Canadians from travelling abroad, purchasing organs for transplantation and returning to Canada. That is shameful, especially when we have joined most of the world in condemning the sale of organs and transplant tourism.

Over 100 countries have passed legislation banning the trade of organs. Additionally, several countries have responded with legislation strengthening existing laws that ban organ trafficking and sales. There are a number of governmental and professional bodies with initiatives to regulate domestic and international organ transplantation and tackle organ trafficking, including, for example, the Council of Europe Convention against Trafficking in Human Organs.

Until we pass this bill, we will have to rely solely on people’s ethical and moral conscience to deter Canadians from seeking and obtaining organs abroad. Unfortunately, we know that these deterrents alone are not enough.

In 2012, the World Health Organization claimed that an illegal organ was sold every hour. Overall, the number of illegal transplants worldwide is believed to be around 10,000 a year. This would mean that in the past 13 years that we have dedicated to putting an end to organ harvesting and trafficking, over 130,000 illegal transplants have occurred.

The international character of this problem, which often sees vulnerable people exploited to meet the demand for organ transplantation in places like Canada, requires more than just a condemnation. We need legislation now. When this legislation is passed, perpetrators will know that they can be prosecuted in Canada and banned from entry.

Despite our inability to eradicate human rights violations around the world, we can enact change at home. It is entirely within our power to avoid complicity of transplant tourism within our own borders. This bill is a welcome effort in that complicity avoidance.

It is up to us to give domestic reality to the international aspirations embodied by international law. We, as parliamentarians, whether in government or in opposition, can and must do our part. This globally pervasive practice needs to be stopped without any further delay. Thank you.

Hon. David Richards: My thanks to Senator Ataullahjan. Honourable senators, this is the third time I have stood and spoken in support of Senator Ataullahjan’s bill. There’s very little new that I can say. Organ transplant tourism for profit preys upon the vulnerable and impoverished, many of whom are coerced because of desperation. The practice itself is filled with a horrid first-world elitism.

There are too many stories of children being blinded, or poverty-stricken men and women coerced into giving up their organs for pay they never receive or left with debilitating consequences. Too many prisoners have organs taken to supply those who might afford it as if they were living in a Frankensteinian gulag. In fact, this makes Mary Shelley pale by comparison.

This bill aims at preventing illegal organ transplant tourism for profit and making such transactions liable and criminal in Canada and by Canadians. I can’t think of a reason that this would not be passed by acclamation as it was in this chamber during the last Parliament. Thank you.

Hon. Ratna Omidvar moved second reading of Bill S-217, An Act respecting the repurposing of certain seized, frozen or sequestrated assets.

She said: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak to Bill S-217, An Act respecting the repurposing of certain seized, frozen or sequestrated assets, which I will refer to as FARA. I have tabled this bill twice and I hope the third time works like a charm. I find myself again battling the dinner clock and I will try my best to bring it in under.

Before I begin to share the details of this bill with you, I would like to thank the institution that has come up with this proposal and it is the World Refugee & Migration Council, which has tasked itself to be a catalyst, catalytic, to think of out-of-the-box solutions and face some of the most significant crises in the world today, which is the crisis of the forcibly displaced people of the world, those who flee their countries for safety and those who are internally displaced because they cannot flee their country. I am a very proud member of this council along with noted academics, former heads of state, former ministers, Nobel Peace Prize winners and activists.

I would also like to take a moment to thank our colleague, former senator Raynell Andreychuk. As we all know, she was the one who shepherded the Magnitsky Act through this chamber, through the House of Commons and it was called into law. This bill rests on her shoulders and builds on it.

In addition, in the last election this proposal was included in the policy platform of the Conservative Party, as they recognized that it is one key way of dealing with corruption. The Liberal Party platform of 2018 also included it in their platform and, in fact, this was in the mandate letter of then foreign minister, global affairs Minister Champagne. If FARA is called into law, Canada will be able to seize the frozen assets of corrupt foreign officials held in Canada through court order and repurpose them back to alleviate the suffering of the people who have been harmed most by their action. In this way, it squares the circle.

Why is this important? For one, the world is facing a forced displacement calamity; there are over 82 million people affected around the world. Half of them, colleagues, are children who have fled their homes because of armed conflict, violence, persecution and human rights abuses. This is the second-highest number of the forcibly displaced since the Second World War and the numbers continue to rise daily. This has created a significant strain, especially on those jurisdictions that border the places they came from, and they themselves are challenged to meet the needs of their own citizens, let alone thousands of arriving refugees.

Colleagues, I speak to this partly from personal experience. As someone who had to make the decision to leave a country and a home in the middle of the night, a decision to flee is never an easy one. It is fraught with peril and, frankly, it paralyzes you with fear. I can still remember what it was like to cross the border from Iran into Turkey in 1981. I can still smell the fear that was pervasive in the room that we were being processed through. It was our fear, of course, but there was also the fear that I sensed in the Revolutionary Guards who were surrounding us. Here is the difference, however: They were barely 14 or 15 years old, but they had weapons and bayonets. I think we all recognized what a toxic combination fear and weapons can be.

I shared this story with you once again, colleagues, because I want you — I need you — to walk in the shoes of those people and feel their fear, loss and helplessness.

Of course, I’m one of the lucky ones. I was able to come to Canada, and I have had a productive life with my family. That is not always the case for the people who are forced to flee. The displaced people of the day live in squalor. There is little food. Fresh water is scarce. Disease and danger lurks everywhere. Sex and human trafficking are growth industries in such settlements.

Resettlement, an option that Canada is rightfully proud of, only applies to a slim 10% of the world’s refugee population. It is countries like Bangladesh, with the Rohingya refugees; Uganda, with the South Sudanese; or Colombia, with the Venezuelans that are most at risk. Now it is true for Pakistan, with the Afghan refugees. All have opened their doors to let people in, some more than others, but let’s not forget that it has put an enormous strain on them, their communities, their economies and their social fabric.

In addition, let me note that forced displacement is no longer a temporary phenomenon; on average, it lasts 20 years — whole generations of human beings knowing nothing more than living a protracted existence on the margins.

Clearly, we need more money, but money for refugees is hard to come by. There is simply not enough money in the system. The UNHCR, as one example, is only ever able to reach 60% of its annual budget. These are not just numbers but lives at risk.

Yet there’s a whole lot of corrupt money floating around. Anyone who has read the news about the Paradise Papers, the Pandora Papers and the Panama Papers know that corruption is a growth industry. The World Bank estimates that $20 billion to $40 billion in development assistance money is stolen by public officials every year. According to the United Nations Secretary-General, embezzlement, tax-dodging, bribes and payoffs worldwide cost roughly $3.6 trillion every year.

Even more pertinently, it is estimated that corrupt leaders of countries with large populations of refugees have deposited billions of dollars in cash and assets in foreign jurisdictions. It is reasonable to assume — in fact, it is reasonable to be certain — that some of this money is parked right here in Canada because of our reputation as a country with good financial governance.

So how would this bill work? As I noted, Canada already has a number of sanction regimes that permit us to freeze the assets of corrupt foreign officials. The decision on whether to take the next step and seek a court order for confiscation, which would repurpose the assets back to the victims, would be made exclusively by the Attorney General of Canada. Only the Attorney General or someone with the AG’s consent could make an application to a provincial superior court.

How would the AG come to this decision? The AG would act on behalf of the government as a whole. They would no doubt confer with their colleagues, including the Minister of Global Affairs. They would be informed by reports and documents, and by lists of frozen assets that are already there from other reputable sources, such as journalists, academics, fact-finding missions, et cetera.

The AG would then make an application to the court. The court would then decide, based on evidence, if the confiscation should proceed. The court would give notice, hear witnesses and weigh evidence, including from representatives of foreign officials. The court would make a decision based on the balance of evidence.

If the court decides that confiscation should proceed, then it would also, in the ruling, set out the criteria and the plan for the distribution of the assets. The court would decide to whom and how the assets should be distributed. Should they go back to the country of origin? Should they go to the UNHCR, Doctors Without Borders or the World Bank? Should they go to the neighbouring country that is dealing with the massive influx of refugees?

The court would also decide on the means to monitor the implementation of the order, thus providing accountability and transparency.

Let me play this out in real life. Canada has already frozen the assets of military generals in Myanmar who have committed genocide against the Rohingya and forced a million people to flee to Bangladesh. Canada, through the court, would be able to confiscate their assets and repurpose them back to help the Rohingya, who are currently in really dire and miserable situations in the refugee camps in Bangladesh. It would be the court’s decision whether to repurpose the money to an NGO, to Bangladesh or any other institution.

There are other examples, but I will skip them. I want to speak briefly to the principles of the bill.

The first principle relates to accountability. Dictators, human rights abusers and kleptocrats have acted with impunity for far too long. They need to be held to account. They have purloined the wealth of their nations, leaving a trail of victims in their wakes.

The second principle is justice by seizing the ill-gotten gains and repurposing them back in support of those whose lives have been destroyed. I hope you will see moral symmetry at play here. Actions have reactions, and there must be consequences. Without consequences, we are left with words full of sound and fury signifying, possibly, nothing.

The third principle is due process. The bill proposes that the seizure of assets of corrupt foreign officials take place through court order. Only a judge will decide, based on the balance of evidence provided to them whether to proceed on the matter. Only a judge will decide whether the seized assets are returned to the source country or to another jurisdiction. That requirement adds transparency, because the application and evidence will be public, the hearing will be open and the results, with reasons, will be published. In addition, a court hearing will ensure that anyone who has a potential interest in the frozen assets can come before the court and make their case.

The fourth principle — and an important one — is openness and transparency. Canadians and the public will know, through a public registry, not just the names of the corrupt officials but also the value of their frozen assets.

The fifth principle is compassion, but with an edge. With a heavy dose of pragmatism, we can empathize and sympathize, and use lofty words for all the plight, but the displaced of the world need housing, safety, education, health care, food and water. All of that comes with a cost, and the UNHCR, we know, is not able to meet the growing demand, with the growing numbers of displaced people. By repurposing stolen money back to those who have suffered the most, this bill will create a new source of financing to provide urgently needed resources for the victims of the unfortunate phenomenon of displacement. This is compassion linked to action.

Finally, this bill is about good governance. Canada should not and must not be a safe haven for ill-gotten gains. In this chamber, we are looking at other avenues of hidden corrupt money. This bill sends a strong message to corrupt leaders that, “You and your money are not welcome in this country. This is not a place where you can hide it or grow it.”

Honourable senators, some of you have asked whether the courts are, in fact, the right vehicle for this bill. To that, I offer two responses. First, the courts have the expertise to deal with such matters. The courts are regularly called upon to deal with issues of asset confiscation, albeit in different circumstances. Currently, the courts oversee the confiscation and distribution of proceeds of crime from drug cartels, gangs or other criminals.

My second observation is that the involvement of the courts will guarantee openness, impartiality and fairness. The courts are well positioned to be the principal actors in this bill.

Some of you will be thinking of the million-dollar question that we are always faced with: Does this legislation conform to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Hon. Ratna Omidvar: Honourable senators, I sadly lost the challenge to the dinner clock, but I hope I have moved your hearts and minds. We were at the spot where I was talking about Charter challenges and constitutionality. Let me pick it up from there to briefly reconfirm what I have said, because my memory is frail, and if you’re like me, your memory is frail too.

My bill will seek to seize frozen assets and repurpose them back through court order to victims of corruption, in particular, victims of mass human rights violations and forced displacement. So the question really is: Is this Charter-proof?

Let me quote from a policy paper published on this particular question by the World Refugee & Migration Council, which was prepared by a noted lawyer, no less than former Attorney General of Canada and former Canadian ambassador to the United Nations Allan Rock. He says:

The section of the Charter that could potentially be invoked to attack asset freezes and confiscation is section 7 — the right to life, liberty and security of the person. . . . Although this section has been held by the courts to be very broad, the jurisprudence has also made clear that section 7 generally does not protect and apply to the economic rights of the applicant.

This is further underlined by Justice Gagné, who ruled in the case involving the freezing of the assets of former President Ben-Ali of Tunisia. She noted, “. . . generally, neither the right to hold employment nor the economic interests of the applicants are protected by the Charter.”

The paper concludes on this point:

. . . it is unlikely that an applicant would be successful in challenging Canadian legislation providing for the freezing and confiscation of the assets of corrupt foreign officials on the ground that it contravenes the Charter.

I would like to point out another very important aspect of this bill. Currently, we do not know the value of the assets that have been frozen in Canada. We know the names of the individuals, but we actually do not know whether they have any assets in Canada. There is no public transparency, since the government is not yet obliged to provide this information. This bill will raise the curtain, make it less opaque and compel the government to list not only corrupt foreign officials but also provide the value of their assets. In the absence of this information, Canadians are not able to advocate for confiscation and opportunities to achieve the benefits that I’m talking about.

Finally — and I’m glad I have the time to talk about this a little bit more — this legislation is not unique. We are following best practice from where? Switzerland, the original home of all assets held by all kinds of people in secrecy forever.

In 2015, Switzerland, to clean up its reputation, enacted the Foreign Illicit Assets Act. Under that law, the Swiss government can apply to their federal court to confiscate foreign assets. If granted, Switzerland can send the assets to the country of origin or another entity for the purpose of improving the lives and conditions of the inhabitants of the country and supporting the rule of law in the country, thus contributing to the fight against corruption.

In fact, I think they repurposed stolen assets back to Kazakhstan by court order and used a foundation to provide education for children in Kazakhstan. Both the United Kingdom and France are currently looking at similar legislation. The EU, which recently enacted Magnitsky, is also looking at this legislation as the next step in their fight against corruption.

This brings me to the final reason I believe this legislation is important. If Canada succeeds in passing it, I believe that others will follow. We followed the example of the U.S. in calling the Magnitsky Act into life, and former Senator Andreychuk improved on the U.S. version once it came to Canada.

The same narrative may well follow this act. This bill, I believe, will ignite the imagination of other jurisdictions by providing a concrete example of how individual jurisdictions can act. Others will pick it up and improve on it, and Canada will be the transformative leader.

In conclusion, colleagues, for far too along corrupt foreign officials have acted with impunity. They have not only stolen mass wealth but have created significant hardship for their people. Their actions have contributed to the displacement and misery of millions of people. Calling them out is simply not enough. We have to make them pay, and FARA will accomplish precisely that.

Thank you, honourable senators.

Senator Omidvar: Thank you, Senator Dalphond. I always dread questions from the lawyers in the room, because I’m not a lawyer. This one I’m grateful for, because you got it completely right. It is not a criminal court proceeding but an administrative court proceeding.

Thank you for your support. I hope you will help me pass this and get it to the Foreign Affairs Committee so we can very quickly get witnesses, discuss this and bring it back to the chamber. Thank you.

(On motion of Senator Duncan, debate adjourned.)

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, the Clerk will distribute information shortly about how to vote, and you will be able to vote until 6 p.m. tomorrow. The information will be sent to the Senate email address that you use to access Zoom for sittings of the Senate or a committee meeting. As there are only two candidates, senators will be asked to select only one.

We will now proceed with Senators’ Statements for the 12 minutes remaining.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the second time?

(On motion of Senator Boniface, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading two days hence.)

[Translation]

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?