Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson: Honourable senators, on behalf of the government, I rise today to speak to Bill S-250, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sterilization procedures). I am so honoured to support Senator Boyer’s important work, as well as bring the message that the government welcomes the tabling of this important legislation and supports the bill in principle at second reading.

As this chamber well knows, Senator Boyer has been working tirelessly to raise awareness on the horrific practice of forced and coerced sterilization. On several occasions, she has informed the chamber of this violation of human rights and serious breach of medical ethics in our country’s history — but she has also explained how this despicable practice continues today. Thanks to her advocacy, Senator Boyer was instrumental in having the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights examine forced and coerced sterilization more closely. This culminated in the report entitled The Scars that We Carry: Forced and Coerced Sterilization of Persons in Canada — Part II, which was tabled last summer.

As is too often the case, the committee found that it is the most vulnerable who have been most affected by forced and coerced sterilization. In the past, government policies explicitly sought to control and reduce the birth rate of First Nations, Métis and Inuit communities, as well as Black communities — and low-income Canadians, racialized Canadians and Canadians with disabilities have also been targeted. Though these explicit policies no longer exist, racist and discriminatory attitudes continue to lurk in some medical settings today, and it is the same vulnerable communities that continue to be the targets of these reprehensible practices. This is why Senator Boyer’s bill is so important. It shines light on yet another dark corner where racism and discrimination linger in this country.

Colleagues, Bill S-250 responds to Canada’s long history of colonization and the colonial policies that have disproportionately affected the health and well-being of Indigenous people and racialized Canadians. Preventing contraception and the capacity for reproduction is an assault on the very core of a person’s humanity, their well-being and their future, as well as the future of their communities.

By making specific mention of sterilization without consent in the Criminal Code, this bill would make this practice explicitly and specifically illegal under Canadian law. It would help protect some of the most vulnerable Canadians from doctors who not only hold discriminatory attitudes and breach professional ethics, but who also commit a violent criminal offence. No matter our race, ethnicity or socio-economic class, or whether we have a disability, every patient in this country must receive equal, professional and conscientious care. Every Canadian deserves this — period.

Bill S-250 would make the Criminal Code crystal clear that a patient’s prior informed consent is the foundation of any medical sterilization process.

Under this bill, a doctor must not only receive the patient’s consent, but also make clear that consent can be withdrawn at any time, including immediately before the procedure. The doctor must also be satisfied that the patient is not being pressured or coerced, and inform the patient about alternative methods of contraception.

Colleagues, it is important for us to take a moment and imagine a discussion on sterilization between a doctor and a patient. There can be a considerable power discrepancy in the relationship and, therefore, a risk that this power may be abused. It is for this reason that Bill S-250 puts in place safeguards. Consent is deemed not to have been granted if the patient is under 18 years old; the patient has not voluntarily initiated the request for the procedure; or they are incapable of consenting for any other reason. In other words, a medical practitioner must ensure that the patient — who is making such a life-altering, consequential decision — is ready, willing and fully informed.

Of course, with the assistance of their medical practitioner, a person may choose to undergo a sterilization procedure. For some people, this might be the right decision. Bill S-250 is a way of protecting people from being manipulated or simply forced to submit to sterilization by unscrupulous medical practitioners. It will not punish health care providers who are living up to their deontological code.

On March 3 of this year, the government provided a response to the Human Rights Committee’s study on forced and coerced sterilization. In it, Minister Duclos stated that the government recognizes the harms caused by coerced sterilization, and the pressing need to end this practice across Canada. According to the minister, the government is working with provincial and territorial partners to ensure that health services can be accessed without systemic bias and discrimination. Though health care is primarily the responsibility of the provinces and territories, the federal government is playing a role in ensuring that health services are provided in a culturally safe way — while combatting racism and discrimination in the medical sector. There is much work to be done, colleagues, but this bill is an important step in the right direction.

I understand that the Minister of Justice has met with Senator Boyer, the bill’s sponsor, and has committed to working with her and her team on possible modifications in order to move the bill forward while still reflecting its important intent. I look forward to seeing it progress, and hope it will be sent to committee as soon as possible.

Once again, I extend my profound gratitude to Senator Boyer for her perseverance. This initiative has my personal support, and I’m glad that the government supports it as well. Forced and coerced sterilization is a horrific practice that has scarred too many women, families and communities for too long. Bill S-250 will help make it stop. Thank you. Hiy hiy.

Hon. Pierre J. Dalphond: Honourable senators, I said to my colleagues this morning, when our group met, that I would probably speak before midnight. This is true, unfortunately, and I’m glad that there are still some people listening. I appreciate that, and I will try to make it interesting.

Honourable senators, I rise in support of Bill S-250, sponsored by Senator Boyer. As we all know, since 2017, Senator Boyer has been, with the assistance of many researchers, the voice of Indigenous women victims of forced sterilization, first in Saskatchewan and subsequently across Canada.

Her bill proposes to add to the assault provisions of the Criminal Code a new indictable offence designed to prevent the forced or coerced sterilization of persons in Canada by exposing an offender to up to 14 years in prison. This new offence is focused on consent, and it requires those who perform a medical act that will cause or attempt to cause someone to be sterilized to obtain truly informed consent and to follow specific safeguards.

Today I won’t delve into the details of the proposed amendment, as this should be done in committee. I will, rather, focus on this bill’s goal, which is the creation of a new criminal offence specific to forced sterilization.

Those of you who have legal training may say that forced or coerced sterilization is already a crime in Canada under aggravated assault offences. This is true, as pointed out by some witnesses before our Human Rights Committee, including former RCMP Commissioner Lucki.

But it must be said that there has never been a charge of aggravated assault in relation to forced or coerced sterilization in Canada, even though Senator Boyer’s office has documented thousands of Indigenous women in Canada who experienced coerced or forced sterilization between 1971 and 2018.

Others may add that all provinces and territories have legislation requiring informed consent for medical care and treatment and that case law is replete with judgments awarding damages to patients injured by a medical procedure to which they did not provide informed consent.

As a matter of fact, class action cases related to forced sterilization of Indigenous women are now pending before the courts of Saskatchewan, B.C., Ontario and Quebec. They seek some indemnification, which the courts may eventually grant.

Finally, some others may argue that forced sterilization is another manifestation of systemic racism against Indigenous women. As such, it may require a comprehensive strategy to address such racism, including proper training of medical and nursing students to address such racism in connection with Indigenous health issues and an increase of Indigenous professionals as recommended by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Calls to Action 19, 23 and 24. I agree that a comprehensive strategy is required to protect women, especially Indigenous women.

But, with the greatest respect, I don’t agree that these facts should deter us from proceeding to the completion of second reading debate on Bill S-250 and sending it to committee for review and detailed analysis.

Like our Human Rights Committee, in its report The Scars that We Carry: Forced and Coerced Sterilization of Persons in Canada — Part II, released in July 2022, I believe that the addition of a specific offence to the Criminal Code will be a valuable contribution to stopping, once and for all, forced sterilization.

First, by adding, after the section on aggravated assaults, a specific provision dealing with forced sterilization, Parliament will send a powerful message to society, including victims, police officers, crown attorneys and judges that forced sterilization can no longer be ignored by the criminal law system.

Second, the deterrent effect of such a provision on medical practitioners and their regulatory bodies will be immediate. It will have a chilling effect on those medical practitioners who still believe in racial eugenics and are ready to perform a sterilization procedure without truly free and informed consent.

Third, we will implement a measure recommended not only by our Human Rights Committee but also by the Council of Europe Convention on preventing and combating violence against women and domestic violence, ratified by 37 countries. Article 39 of this convention provides that states should ensure the criminalization of surgery to terminate a woman’s capacity to reproduce without her prior and informed consent.

As of today, Malta, Belgium, France and Italy have acted accordingly. By amending our Criminal Code, Canada will show the rest of the world that it believes in this important aspect of preventing violence against women.

As you may know, Canada has been criticized on this issue by the international community. In 2018, the United Nations Committee against Torture expressed concern about reports of extensive forced or coerced sterilization of Indigenous women and girls. In 2019, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and a United Nations special rapporteur called on Canada to take concrete action.

Finally, forced sterilization is not only a part of our past genocidal policies against First Nations, but it continues.

In its 2019 final report, the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls highlighted examples of programs in Canada aimed at subjugating or eliminating Indigenous Peoples, including coerced sterilization.

In March 2021, Senator Boyer told us:

Tragically, [forced and coerced sterilization] continues to happen at this very moment, with cases being reported publicly as recently as 2018.

[Translation]

In its second report on coerced sterilization, released in July 2021, the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights also concluded that this form of violence against women was still occurring in Canada.

In the meantime, in 2019, following a recommendation from the first report produced by the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights, the federal government established an independent advisory committee to study the extent of forced sterilization in Canada.

The Quebec government refused to participate on the grounds that there had never been a sterilization policy in Quebec, that the practice did not exist there and that health is a provincial jurisdiction. The first reason seems justified. Unlike Alberta and British Columbia, Quebec never adopted policies or laws encouraging eugenics. In fact, the Catholic Church, the dominant church in Quebec in the early 20th century, preached a pro-birth policy.

The third reason has to do with political posturing and ignores the fact that the committee’s mission was not to propose pan‑Canadian standards, but rather to paint a picture of the situation across the country, in order to shed light on the actions that all levels of government would need to take.

However, this response was based on the false premise that, unlike in the rest of Canada, forced sterilization was not taking place in Quebec. Fortunately, two members of the Research Laboratory on Indigenous Women’s Issues at the Université du Québec in Abitibi-Témiscamingue drafted a report on the situation in Quebec. Professor Suzy Basile and PhD student Patricia Bouchard carried out a study in partnership with the First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Health and Social Services Commission and the Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador.

From May 2021 to June 2022, the research team collected 105 accounts from 35 Indigenous people who chose to come forward after undergoing or witnessing forced sterilization or obstetric violence. Of those 35 participants, 14 were Atikamekw, 10 were Innu, five were Anishinaabe, four were Eeyou and two were Inuit.

Because of the pandemic, the research team was unable to meet with 20 other individuals to hear their accounts. Nine participants reported undergoing forced sterilization and 13 reported experiencing additional forms of obstetric violence. A total of 22 women were victims of forced sterilization. They ranged in age from 15 to 46 at the time of the procedures, which took place between 1980 and 2019. The youngest woman to undergo forced sterilization was 17 years old. At the other end of the spectrum, the oldest woman who underwent this procedure non-consensually was 46 years old.

In addition, three other women were victims of one or more forced abortions. Finally, six other women endured obstetrical violence, which means that they were victims of discriminatory acts, attitudes and remarks from health care staff. It should also be noted that these acts of violence took place essentially in hospitals located in cities serving Indigenous communities, specifically in Roberval, La Tuque, Val-d’Or, Joliette and Sept‑Îles.

This research team’s report was published on November 24, 2022. It found that, in many cases, there was a lack of consent and that, in others, consent was hastily obtained either shortly before, during or after labour. Furthermore, in many cases, consent was obtained based on false information, such as the claim that the procedure, which was described as a contraceptive measure, was reversible.

In summary, the report highlights 22 cases of sterilization without free and informed consent. What is also very troubling is that, in many cases, racist arguments were used to justify the procedure. For example, one doctor reportedly said the following:

It’s enough, you need to stop there. All the children that you bring into the world will live in poverty.

The report pointed to the obvious presence of systemic racism and set out 31 recommendations, including a call for the Government of Quebec to stop being reluctant to recognize the existence of systemic racism. That call has not yet been heard.

The media reported broadly on the content of the report and other women spoke out to the researchers. One of the women said that she was sterilized in 2020, when she was only 15. Incidentally, the researchers, with support from their Indigenous partners, undertook a second phase of their study to meet the women they were unable to see during the first phase and all the new victims who wanted to come forward.

As far as the Collège des médecins du Québec is concerned, it acknowledged that the number of victims is likely much higher and that forced sterilization likely still exists. It added that it intended to make its members aware of the fundamental principle of informed consent. It also invited any members of the medical staff who may have witnessed acts of this nature to report them to the college.

In closing, Bill S-250 addresses incidents of obstetrical violence that are still present in our health care system in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada. I invite you, as Senator Wells, the bill’s critic did, and as Senator LaBoucane-Benson just did, to refer the bill to committee without delay. Honourable colleagues, thank you for your attention despite this late hour. This issue deserves our full attention even at this hour. Thank you. Merci. Meegwetch.

Hon. Percy E. Downe moved second reading of Bill S-258, An Act to amend the Canada Revenue Agency Act (reporting on unpaid income tax).

He said: Honourable senators, you will note that this is the third time I have tabled the same private member’s bill, the fairness for all Canadian taxpayers act, requiring the Government of Canada to disclose all convictions for overseas tax evasion and to measure the tax gap — the difference between what taxes should have been collected and what is actually collected. It would also require the Canada Revenue Agency to provide the Parliamentary Budget Officer with data it has collected on the tax gap, as well as any additional data the PBO considers important so that he can prepare his own independent analysis of the tax gap.

The second and most recent time, this bill passed the Senate but not the House of Commons. Hopefully, the third time is the charm.

Let me begin, as I always do, with this disclaimer: It is not illegal to have a bank account overseas, but it is illegal not to report proceeds from those accounts to the Canada Revenue Agency. Colleagues, it used to be that the Canada Revenue Agency didn’t attract a great deal of attention, either from the public or from the government. As the one branch of government counted upon to turn a profit, there has always been a temptation to simply let it go about its business — if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.

However, that confidence has been eroded as we see story after story about overseas tax evasion with no punishment and, unfortunately, little or no recovery of money, compounded by the repeated responses of the CRA after every public disclosure. For example, “They are working hard to catch overseas tax cheats,” they tell us. “They take it very seriously,” they tell us. They’ve identified, as opposed to collected, X amount of money, and so on. Unfortunately, these comments from CRA belie the fact that their efforts and results are disappointing to the extreme.

One of many such examples is the Panama Papers, which were released in 2016. In the seven years since the release of those papers and the public disclosure, which identified hundreds of Canadians holding accounts in one law firm in Panama, other countries with citizens identified in the publicly released documents as having those accounts hidden in Panama collected over $1.3 billion in taxes that were owing to them.

As of 2021, the last year for which information is available, Australia has recovered $138 million; Ecuador, $84 million; Spain, $166 million; and even Iceland, a country of 340,000 people, has recovered $25 million. But for all the hundreds of accounts and dozens of audits, Canada hasn’t announced the recovery of a nickel. Zero recovery.

The CRA has claimed to have assessed over $16 million owing, but as I said, assessed isn’t collected, and not one person has been charged, much less convicted, of overseas tax evasion. Other countries’ individuals have been charged and convicted, in addition to having to pay back the funds.

In October 2012, almost 11 years ago, I wrote the then Parliamentary Budget Officer, asking him to investigate the economic impact of overseas tax evasion. At his suggestion, that investigation evolved into an effort to determine the tax gap: the difference between what should be collected by our revenue agency and what they actually collect. The PBO determined that it is indeed possible to provide an estimate of the gap, particularly given that so many other countries are doing it. Subsequently, it approached the CRA to secure the agency’s cooperation in that effort.

Colleagues, the CRA refused to cooperate. We know why when we realize the tax gap not only measures what should be collected but also how effective — or, in this case, ineffective — our national revenue agency is in their duty and responsibility to collect money owed to the Government of Canada. I am sure that the exposure, through a tax gap analysis, of the wholly inadequate job the CRA is doing in fighting overseas tax evasion was a major factor in the agency’s refusal to cooperate with the PBO.

But even without the cooperation of the CRA, the PBO was able to come to his own conclusion about the tax gap. He testified before a Senate committee in March 2020, stating that based on his own analysis:

I am convinced . . . having worked both at the CRA and been PBO for a year and a half now, that there are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars in taxes that go undeclared, unreported and that escape Canadian tax authorities, probably on an annual basis due to the international transactions that take place.

For its part, the well-respected Conference Board of Canada published a report six years ago titled Canadian Tax Avoidance and Examining the Potential Tax Gap. They concluded that up to $47 billion worth of taxes are not being collected by the Government of Canada.

The Canada Revenue Agency maintains on its website a list of press releases about Canadians convicted of offences related to tax evasion. It does so, in its own words:

. . . to maintain confidence in the integrity of the self-assessment system, and to increase compliance with the law through the deterrent effect of such publicity.

If you look at the list, as I did recently, you will find a wide range of people from coast to coast, all caught and all punished, almost all for domestic tax evasion. But if you hide your money overseas, your chances of getting caught are very low, whereas if you cheat on your taxes domestically, you are likely to be caught, fined and jailed in some cases. To that end, of all the notices — and there were 105 when I looked — going back to 2017, only three were convictions for what one might call overseas tax evasion and none were for particularly high amounts. Most of those convictions were through proper insurance action.

I should note that the recent years have not been without some measure of success. The 2015 election platform of the Liberal Party contained a commitment to:

Directing CRA to immediately begin an analysis and stronger enforcement of tax evasion, or what the OECD calls the “tax gap.”

The agency, for all its past reluctance, has been forced, due to that promise, to begin to release a series of reports on the gap, starting in 2016, with the most recent one released last summer, which makes passing reference to overseas tax evasion.

However, Canada needs a series of studies over time to gauge the effectiveness of the CRA to see what is working and what needs improving. The decision on whether to pursue that series should not be left to the CRA alone; given their refusal to cooperate with the PBO, it should be required by legislation, which this bill would provide.

I want to emphasize that a requirement for the CRA to report on overseas tax evasion and the broader tax gap is not the result of mere curiosity. Other countries — the United States, the United Kingdom, Turkey, Sweden and even the State of California — measure their tax gaps and have found it to be a valuable policy-making tool. They all agree that the money hidden overseas must come home, and they need continued tax gap information to identify the dollar amounts involved and to help bring that money back.

In Canada, as I stated, there is no risk to hiding your money overseas because your chances of being charged, let alone convicted, range from slim to none. The hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars identified by the Parliamentary Budget Officer will not, as if by magic, solve our financial problems, but if we collected even a portion of that, we could reduce the deficit and fund various programs. We all know that every time a new policy is suggested in Canada, the question is often asked, “How will you pay for it?” It is a wonderful suggestion about how it will be paid for. The billions of dollars hidden overseas would answer that.

Various taxes could be lowered as well.

It is undeniable that a significant amount of money is lost to this country through overseas tax evasion, but beyond that is the simple fact that it is grossly unfair. Those of us who are playing by the rules and paying our taxes are being deceived by other Canadians who are skipping the system and hiding their money overseas.

The failure to collect taxes owed undermines confidence that everyone is being treated equally. If we are all in this together, then we all pay taxes. Otherwise, there is special treatment for some Canadians with the resources to hide their money, while the rest of us must pay more to make up the shortfall.

Colleagues, before I wrap up, I want to express my thanks to those senators who delivered speeches in favour of this bill when I last introduced it. The bill before the Senate today is identical to that previous bill. The support from Senator Paul MacIntyre, who has since retired, Senator Bovey, Senator Galvez and Senator McPhedran is much appreciated. I thank them for that support. Indeed, I thank all senators who passed this bill in the Senate last time. We hope for common sense to grip the House of Commons this time so they will pass it as well.

Thank you, colleagues.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, when shall this bill, as amended, be read the third time?

(On motion of Senator Patterson (Nunavut), bill, as amended, placed on the Orders of the Day for third reading at the next sitting of the Senate.)

[English]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Bellemare, seconded by the Honourable Senator Dalphond, for the second reading of Bill S-244, An Act to amend the Department of Employment and Social Development Act and the Employment Insurance Act (Employment Insurance Council).

Hon. David M. Wells: Honourable senators, I rise this evening to speak to Bill C-224, An Act to establish a national framework for the prevention and treatment of cancers linked to firefighting.

For thousands of men and women in firefighting, the job is more than a profession. Firefighters face risks every day to protect others. They put themselves on the line for their communities, for citizens and for each other. It is well known that firefighters encounter carcinogens and toxins on a daily basis.

Initially, exposure was believed to occur from breathing in chemicals released during fires, as well as smoke, soot and asbestos. Further research has confirmed that those toxins can also be ingested and absorbed through the skin. The World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer, in July 2022, declared firefighting as a Group 1 carcinogen, the classification with the highest cancer hazards.

Through years of toxic exposure, firefighters contract cancer up to nearly four times the rate of the general population. Overall, the average Canadian has a 44% risk of developing cancer in their lifetime. This grows to 53% for firefighters. While a person has a 30% risk of dying of cancer, the mortality rate in firefighters is 44%.

To put these numbers into greater perspective, last year, 95% of deaths among Canadian firefighters were attributable to cancer. As a result, firefighting practices have increasingly emphasized the proper personal protective equipment usage, decontamination protocols and other measures like scrub-down areas in fire stations to minimize exposure to carcinogens.

However, in spite of these efforts, a growing body of research has shown that firefighters have been further exposed to deadly chemicals through the very gear that is supposed to protect them.

Firefighting coats and pants, as part of the collective gear, contain high concentrations of per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances, referred to as PFAS. PFAS are a class of more than 12,000 synthetic chemicals primarily used as surface treatment for the purpose of repelling water and oil. Their strong, long-lasting carbon-fluorine bonds make it so that many of them do not degrade in the environment and are difficult for the body to secrete. For this reason, they are known as “forever chemicals.”

PFAS are not exclusive to heavy-duty equipment and gear. In fact, these chemicals are found in everyday household items like cleaning products, rain jackets, umbrellas, tents, non-stick cookware and in the stain-resistant coatings used on carpets, upholstery and other fabrics like gym gear. They are even in personal care products like shampoo, dental floss, nail polish and makeup.

I deliberately note this, colleagues, to paint a picture of how integrated PFAS are in our lives. Through a number of toxicological studies, PFAS have been shown to impact behavioural development and metabolism as well as the circulatory, immune and endocrine systems. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention outlines a host of health effects associated with PFAS exposure beyond cancer, including liver damage, decreased fertility and increased risk of asthma and thyroid disease.

Now imagine wearing 45 pounds of work clothing covered in it every day.

It is also important to acknowledge that the high levels of heat firefighters face while battling fires help in releasing these toxins from the gear so that they regularly seep into the skin, are breathed in or enter the body through inevitable tactile transmission.

Emerging research has forced firefighters to reconcile that flames are not what they need to be most concerned about. It is the risk of cancer. In that regard, we must reassess the globally standardized gear that firefighters are required to wear. Colleagues, as you will recall, this bill would create a national framework to raise public awareness of cancers related to firefighting with the goal of improving firefighters’ access to cancer prevention and treatment. As critic of this bill, I wonder: How can the development of a framework be a solution?

Certainly, conversations on the merits of awareness should be had. However, true, effective change needs curative measures and not palliative solutions. If the goal is to reduce cancer for firefighters, we need to look at its sources and adjust accordingly. While little can be done to prevent the chemicals released during a fire, there is a direct, obvious solution in what is being worn in the first place, and it is simply to replace it with something safe.

Currently, firefighting protective gear contains PFAS to repel water and oil. Yet, as mentioned earlier, well-established science shows that its benefits are greatly outweighed by the dangers. Fortunately, safer substitutions exist with many more projects underway in an effort to transition away from these forever chemicals.

According to a Danish research report entitled Durable Water and Soil repellent chemistry in the textile industry, there are a number of alternative products on the market that provide durable water and oil repellency. These products contain modifications to their general chemistries that consequentially adjust their carcinogenic risk. There were five mentioned in detail in the report: paraffin repellent chemistries, stearic acid-melamine repellent chemistries, silicone repellent chemistries, dendrimer based repellent chemistries and nano-material based repellent chemistries. All these substitutes have chemical compositions that do not meet the definition of PFAS. In other words, they can be considered as safer alternatives to the chemical of concern when developing innovative firefighting gear.

As research is ongoing, I encourage the federal government to bring this crucial issue into consideration when developing this national framework. The concerns I have raised fall well inside the scope of this bill, given their direct link to cancer.

This is but one step the federal government can and must take to lower the risk for our firefighters and address their legitimate health and safety concerns. I would like to take a moment in my remarks to express that I’m fully supportive of this bill. In taking my role as critic seriously, I highlight the concern of firefighting gear to emphasize the necessity of this legislation and recommend a way to strengthen it within the existing purview of the bill.

The only reservation I have with this bill is that its original iteration, Bill C-224, included the line “provide for firefighters across Canada to be regularly screened for cancers linked to firefighting . . . .” I believe it was a very important element. However, this was later weakened to read, “make recommendations respecting regular screenings for cancers linked to firefighting.” Rather than requiring the government, it downgraded the measure into a recommendation. As someone who recognizes the separation of federal and provincial jurisdiction — and that is what this change was based upon — I can see why the change was made. However, I still think it does not stand as strong as it did in its original form. When it comes to protecting our firefighters from occupational diseases, time is of the essence. The earlier we screen for cancers, the better the outcomes, which is crucial given the implications and merit of this bill. Nevertheless, I’m proud to be involved in such a critically important bill.

Firefighters risk their lives every day to protect our communities, homes and lives. We must be there for them the same way they are there for us. This bill is one way of doing so by acknowledging the long-term health risks of firefighters and setting out frameworks to better protect them in the line of duty. It impacts far more than the firefighter. It impacts their entire family and the entire structure of our communities. Colleagues, this bill can save lives.

Thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: We do not have consent, Senator Dupuis. I am sorry.

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

[Translation]

Senator Plett: I find that strange: “Don’t ask me the question; ask somebody else.”

Every day, it seems there are new revelations about foreign interference by Beijing and what the Prime Minister knew. The Prime Minister has always said there is a wall between him and the Trudeau Foundation. Last week, La Presse reported that one of the senior staffers in the Prime Minister’s Office reached out to the Trudeau Foundation in November 2016 regarding the “Chinese donation.” That’s a pretty thin wall, leader. A former board member told La Presse last week that the so-called political polarization reason the foundation and the Prime Minister gave for the resignations was — wait for this — “a bunch of lies.”

Leader, Canadians deserve the truth. There has to be a public inquiry. Clearly, the Prime Minister doesn’t agree or he would have called one by now.

But what excuse does his cabinet have? Why can’t they see that a full public inquiry is the only right thing to do at this point? Finally, leader, what do you call someone who spews a bunch of lies? What kind of language would you consider that to be?

Hon. Donna Dasko: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Senator Gold, members of the Canadian Museums Association are in Ottawa over the next two days as part of their 2023 Hill Day to speak with parliamentarians and others. The association includes many representatives from my city of Toronto, which is the home of fabulous galleries and museums.

However, people I know in the museum community are greatly concerned about the continuing turmoil at the National Gallery of Canada. As the search for a new, permanent director continues, my question to you today builds on the question posed to you by Senator Bovey last December, and that question is: Can you confirm that the new, permanent director will have two essential qualifications — an advanced degree in art history or in contemporary expression, and a career in directing and running a major gallery or museum? Thank you.

Senator Dasko: Given that the new, permanent director was expected to be announced by March 30, are you able to confirm today the date on which the announcement of this person will be made? Thank you.

Senator Dagenais: The government’s dental care program is going to become a bottomless pit and, as I’ve already said, it is even causing a shortage of dentists.

All that aside, do you think that it is right — and I won’t presume to refer to the Prime Minister’s chronic recklessness here — that Quebec families can pocket $630 from the federal government, even though the provincial government is already paying for dental care for children under the age of 10?

It seems to me that we ought to be able to harmonize our policies at some basic level. Isn’t there a way to harmonize policies in order to try to save Canadians’ money?

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. My answer is twofold. First, if my memory serves me well, the Prime Minister says that he is open to discussing a bilateral agreement with his counterpart, the Government of Quebec, given that Quebec has a program that doesn’t necessarily exist anywhere else.

We will closely monitor that process and how the national program will be received in Quebec, and the amounts paid out.

That said, I must emphasize the importance of this dental program for thousands upon thousands of Canadian families, young people and not-so-young people, who don’t have access to dental care and who don’t have the means to obtain dental care, which is vital to physical and mental health. This is an important program for Canadians, and the Canadian government is proud to move forward with this program.

[English]

Hon. Claude Carignan: Honourable senators, this morning, Radio-Canada’s website had a headline about the Trudeau family vacationing with wealthy Trudeau Foundation donors.

This time, it wasn’t on the Aga Khan’s island, in London or Tofino; it was in Jamaica. Canadian citizens paid more than $160,000 of taxpayers’ money to provide security and other things that are required for the Trudeau family’s trip. Moreover, these costs don’t include the Challenger, which costs taxpayers a minimum of $10,000 per hour.

I checked Expedia’s website, and there are 5,105 hotels in Jamaica. Why did the Prime Minister choose the one owned by a wealthy contributor to the Trudeau Foundation?

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: Would Senator Gold agree to take a question?

Senator Miville-Dechêne: I think legislation certainly needs to be as clear as possible, but it also needs to send a clear message. What came out in our hearings and, as you know, was very telling, is the fear that content creators have, those who create user-generated content. They are afraid that they are going to be covered under Bill C-11.

Unfortunately, the amendment as it’s currently drafted leaves a huge amount of uncertainty, particularly in terms of who will be covered. Is it anyone who makes money? Everyone knows that user-generated content allows small creators to earn an income.

How do you plan on reassuring those creators, considering they have been very clear about their fears? We’re talking about people who want to make a living. Just like the musicians who are opposed to this amendment, content creators exist and they feel that this amendment is unclear. Personally, I have to tell you that in reading it, I don’t find it particularly clear either.

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, I’ve been now in this place for 15 years, and excuse me if I am a little skeptical of taking any government at face value. I as a legislator would like to see things in the law in black and white.

You pointed out as well that we should just have faith that this is going to be done and that we are here to make sure that we overlook and carry out our responsibilities, as you said in your speech, as legislators to make sure the government does what they say. Don’t you also agree that we are passing a law here that has not been supported by a regulatory framework? We’re leaving it to the CRTC, as you said in your speech. They will be carrying out public consultations in order to set the regulatory framework. What happens in case this regulatory framework isn’t consistent with the commitments you highlighted in your speech? What are our options as parliamentarians at that point with this bill to do a follow-up in a thorough way?

Senator Gold: You having been here for 15 years and I for 6 and a half years, we know that following Royal Assent there is a regulatory process. Following Royal Assent, there will be a process around the policy direction. I outlined that process to you and I will remind you it involves public consultation, public input, both at the front end and at the back end when the CRTC receives the public consultation. I will also remind colleagues — and as chair of the committee that studied the bill at length, Senator Housakos, you will also know — that the bill provides for reports to Parliament and parliamentary oversight and was improved in that regard by Senator Quinn’s amendment.

We have many tools in our arsenal, but the arsenal that we carry with us is a sense of what our role and responsibility are here in the Senate. Ninety-nine per cent of this bill was approved by this place and the other place. Of the 26 amendments, 20 were approved by three parties in the other place. This bill has been studied in this place and the other place extensively. The time has come now to recognize this is an important and good bill. The government has made firm, solid public commitments, and the text of the law is also clear with regard to what it applies to and what it does not apply to. If that is not enough for those in this chamber who in good faith want to see this bill succeed and pass, then I have run out of things to say.

If you want to kill the bill, there are lots of ways to do it. We have seen it in the past. We know how to do that. We can delay it. We can hope for another election. We can get it buried, and it will die on the Order Paper. But for those of us who believe that this is a good bill, a bill that has been improved by our amendments, and who believe that the elected members of the House of Commons have done their responsible duty and taken us seriously and have approved 20 out of 26 amendments, the time now is to give it Royal Assent.

Senator Wallin: The reason we are all asking you questions that seem similar is because it is not clear in the bill. Senator Miville-Dechêne and Senator Simons presented language — a compromise — inside our own committee. They presented language that would have given the government the right and the opportunity to be clear about what you promised and what they promised publicly, on television shows and in front of the committee.

If you really believe it, then put it in the bill. That’s why we keep asking the same question. A promise in a response to questions and in appearances on television is not law, and we would like to see it written in the bill.

Senator Gold: Senator Wallin, I appreciate your question very much. I answered it as best I could in the speech. I’m not going to reread it. The amendment, according to the government and according to the majority of the members of the House of Commons, did not achieve its objectives and poses a risk of undermining the central objectives of the act.

This was much debated in the committee and debated in the Senate. The Senate passed the amendment. The House respectfully disagrees. I’ve tried to provide the reasons why the House disagrees.

I’ve also tried to provide reasons which I know you will take seriously. Whether you agree with me or not, that’s your prerogative. Notwithstanding this disagreement, notwithstanding your disappointment or the fact that you do not necessarily find my answers compelling, we will agree to disagree and to pass this important bill for the benefit of the Canadian cultural community and Canadians in general.