Hon. Raymonde Saint-Germain: Welcome, minister.

I am interested in federal-provincial affairs, intergovernmental affairs, that are part of your portfolio. In the emergency context of the pandemic, governments at all levels were forced to come together for the common good of the people and to come to an agreement while respecting jurisdictions.

I’d like to hear your vision for the future. Can we build on the achievements in federal-provincial relations that this pandemic has brought about? How do you envision the next steps in negotiating the most pressing files in a way that respects jurisdictions and is effective?

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I give notice that, at the next sitting of the Senate, I will move:

That, notwithstanding any provision of the Rules, previous order or usual practice:

1.in accordance with rule 10-11(1), the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be authorized to examine the subject matter of all of Bill C-47, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 28, 2023, introduced in the House of Commons on April 20, 2023, in advance of the said bill coming before the Senate;

2.in addition, the following committees be separately authorized to examine the subject matter of the following elements contained in Bill C-47:

(a)the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy: those elements contained in Clauses 118 to 122 concerning cryptoasset mining in Part 2, and Divisions 1, 2, 6, 7, 26, 33 and 37 of Part 4;

(b)the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources: those elements contained in Divisions 20 and 36 of Part 4;

(c)the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans: those elements contained in Subdivisions A, B and C of Division 21 of Part 4;

(d)the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade: those elements contained in Divisions 4, 5, 10 and 11 of Part 4, and in Subdivision A of Division 3 of Part 4;

(e)the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs: those elements contained in Divisions 30, 31, 34 and 39 of Part 4, and in Subdivision B of Division 3 of Part 4;

(f)the Standing Senate Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs: those elements contained in Division 24 of Part 4;

(g)the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology: those elements contained in Divisions 8, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 25, 27, 28, 29, 35 and 38 of Part 4; and

(h)the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications: those elements contained in Division 2 of Part 3, and Divisions 22 and 23 of Part 4;

3.each of the committees listed in point 2 that are authorized to examine the subject matter of particular elements of Bill C-47:

(a)submit its final report to the Senate no later than June 2, 2023; and

(b)be authorized to deposit its report with the Clerk of the Senate if the Senate is not then sitting;

4.as the reports from the various committees authorized to examine the subject matter of particular elements of Bill C-47 are tabled in the Senate, they be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting, provided that if a report is deposited with the Clerk, it be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting following the one on which the depositing is recorded in the Journals of the Senate;

5.the aforementioned committees be authorized to meet for the purposes of their studies of the subject matter of all or particular elements of Bill C-47, even though the Senate may then be sitting or adjourned, with the application of rules 12-18(1) and 12-18(2) being suspended in relation thereto; and

6.the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be authorized to take any reports tabled under point 3 into consideration during its study of the subject matter of all of Bill C-47.

Hon. Raymonde Saint-Germain: Honourable senators, I will make my comments complementary to those of Senator Gold, with whom I fully agree.

My first point will be to the last point of Senator Plett, which is that this chamber has no government leader.

I believe that we have passed the stage where this objection is valid. I do believe that it should have been raised at the earliest possibility, which would have been either November 2015, or, at the very least, at the beginning of this current Parliament, because Senator Plett and Senator Housakos and many colleagues here have each and every day called Senator Gold “government leader,” and obviously it is clear that Senator Gold is the Government Representative and that he holds the powers and responsibilities prescribed in our rules to the Leader of the Government. The precedent has been set and it is now part of our parliamentary conventions.

Furthermore, the Parliament of Canada Act — the PCA — which defines the rules, customs and regulations of the Parliament of Canada itself, has been amended and now recognizes on the same level the senator occupying the position of Leader of the Government in the Senate or Government Representative in the Senate. The definition of the Leader of the Government in the Senate in the companion of our Rules is as follows:

The Senator who acts as the head of the Senators belonging to the Government party. In modern practice, the Government Leader is also a member of Cabinet. The full title of the Government Leader is “Leader of the Government in the Senate.”

Senator Gold is regularly treated as the Leader of the Government. He is afforded unlimited speaking time. Senator Gagné regularly exercises powers vested in the government leader and deputy leader position.

There is no doubt that Senator Gold is the head of the senators belonging to the government party. The PCA has been amended. His title is now recognized and the PCA has precedence over the Rules of the Senate and obviously over the website of the Senate.

To the second point regarding negotiations, I concur with Senator Gold. I have been, as have my other leaders colleagues, participating in the leaders’ meeting and it is clear that there have been offers and attempts to negotiate further to this message. I won’t refer to previous negotiations where all leaders agreed when we signed gentlepersons’ agreements, but this time it was clear there were attempts. I was not witnessing the bilateral meetings between Senator Plett and Senator Gold, obviously, but to that point, I’d like to refer you to a ruling by Speaker Kinsella on September 20, 2000, further to a point of order raised by the then-deputy leader.

Senator Kinsella ruled:

. . . the deputy leader has stated that an agreement has not been reached. I have no means of knowing whether an agreement will be reached. All I have before me is a motion stating that if they have reached no agreement at this point, the rule has been followed and the terms have been set out. Therefore, I rule that the point of order is not valid.

I do believe, Speaker, that you are in the same type of situation, because as the Speaker of the Senate, you are not part of our negotiations. You are not part of our meetings. It is not your role to read our emails, our texts or to listen to all of our conversations.

Your role is to be given a motion indicating that there has been a failure to agree to allocate time to conclude and adjourn debate, and this is why, on this ruling, I refer you to Speaker Kinsella’s ruling on September 20, 2000.

On another point, it is clear, even from the Leader of the Opposition’s comments, that there have been efforts to modernize the Rules of the Senate of Canada to reflect the practices of the Senate. There are 14 instances of “recognized parties” or “parties” in the Rules of the Senate. The only place this is not followed by the words “recognized parliamentary group” is pertaining to time allocation. I do not believe it is the intent of the Senate to render the entire sections on time allocation entirely inoperable by this inadvertent omission.

Again, I reiterate that the point of order regarding the status of the Government Representative should have been raised sooner, at the first opportunity, which is very far from us, either at the end of the year in 2015 or at the beginning of the next Parliament.

Thank you.