The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Christine St-Pierre, Maria Mourani, Marie-Michelle Desmeules and members of the All Party Parliamentary Group to End Modern Slavery and Human Trafficking. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Miville-Dechêne.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: Honourable senators, I want to pay tribute to my guests, all of whom have helped fight sexual exploitation in Quebec. The All Party Parliamentary Group to End Modern Slavery and Human Trafficking, which I co-chair, organized a riveting panel on this issue today at noon in Parliament.

First of all, I want to pay tribute to Marie-Michelle Desmeules, a survivor who lived through this hell. For 10 years, she endured unspeakable violence at the hands of a pimp. She estimates that she was raped 25,000 times and she now suffers from post‑traumatic stress disorder. We thank you for testifying, Ms. Desmeules.

The Government of Quebec has amended its policy since 2016. Prostitution is now considered sexual exploitation in most cases.

Geneviève Albert, director of the award-winning film Noémie Says Yes, does a brilliant job of explaining that. Contrary to what some people might think, just saying yes is not giving consent. We cannot condone prostitution by hiding behind the misleading argument of consent. Only a very small minority of those who sell sexual services come out unscathed.

Unfortunately, there is no public information campaign to drive home the point that the purchase of sexual services is exploitation, and so the mentality around this issue is not really changing.

Former Quebec minister Christine St-Pierre sat on the Select Committee on the Sexual Exploitation of Minors. Yes, the exercise gave a bit more money to the police and support groups, but that is still not nearly enough to deal with the urgent needs and the normalization of this phenomenon, which has been exacerbated by social media.

Obviously there is consensus to denounce child pornography. However, what happens when these girls, who are entrapped, turn 18? This is when all the contradictions in how we view prostitution crystalize, because the exploitation continues, in many cases, in a context of manipulation and financial, psychological or physical coercion.

Victims such as Marie-Michelle Desmeules inspired criminologist and former federal independent MP Maria Mourani to legislate and to add human trafficking to the list of offences to which the forfeiture of proceeds of crime applies. This was a very long battle, in which she was championed in the Senate by none other than Senator Boisvenu.

The new promising initiatives in Quebec include courts specializing in sexual violence to better support victims and a kind of school for the clients of prostitutes, or “John School.”

Officer Ghyslain Vallières, from the Longueuil police service, got involved in a pilot project designed to change the behaviour of men arrested for paying for sexual services. These clients pay a fine and avoid court on the condition that they agree to take part in a day of awareness raising and survivor testimonials.

In closing, I want to paraphrase our filmmaker: It does not have to be this way; prostitution has a solution and it is a political one. Thank you.

[English]

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Christine St‑Pierre, Maria Mourani, Marie-Michelle Desmeules and members of the All Party Parliamentary Group to End Modern Slavery and Human Trafficking. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Miville-Dechêne.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Vanessa Casiong. She is the guest of the Honourable Senator Patterson (Nunavut).

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Magali Portier. She is the guest of the Honourable Senator Moncion.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Hon. Marco E. L. Mendicino, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Safety: Senator Pate, I want to begin by thanking you for not only your advocacy but your collaboration on this important issue. I believe that the point of departure for this discussion centres around the disproportionate interactions between racialized Canadians, Indigenous peoples and our law enforcement institutions including correctional institutions which fall under the purview of the federal government, which is why once they have completed their sentence, there should be a pathway that allows them to reintegrate fully into the community. The pardon regime is one way in which we can achieve that objective.

What I have done, as you will know, is significantly reduce the fees from what used to be approximately $600 down to $50, which is a substantial reduction in the financial burden. I acknowledge we can and will do more.

Second, by helping those who are applying for a pardon to navigate the system so that it is as seamless and free from barriers as possible.

I will say that I am well aware of the private member’s bill that you are sponsoring. You and I have had some productive conversations. I believe there is broad alignment in what we are trying to achieve, but we have to take those next steps.

The last thing I would say, Senator Pate, is that, as you will know, with the work of the NDP through my colleague Minister Lametti’s Bill C-5, a bill that helped make reforms around the repeal of mandatory minimum penalties, we were able to achieve an automatic sequestration regime, albeit for a small subset of offences touching on drug offences.

[Translation]

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you, and welcome, minister. My question concerns the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, or NSICOP. I asked Senator Gold about this at Senate Question Period yesterday and I didn’t get a good answer. I hope you will give me a better one today.

The membership of this committee is supposed to have three senators, but two of those seats have been vacant for a month. The last two times this committee was set up, the Prime Minister refused to appoint a senator from the official opposition. Now it appears he is doing the same thing all over again.

Minister, if NSICOP is so important to the Prime Minister, why hasn’t he filled the vacant seats? Why do you think he continually refuses to appoint a senator from the official opposition? Do you believe the official opposition in this chamber should be represented on the committee, yes or no?

Hon. Marco E. L. Mendicino, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Safety: Thank you for the question, senator.

I want to thank the members of this chamber for allowing me the opportunity to be here to take your questions.

Senator, in direct response, I believe firmly in the significance of the work of the National Security Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians. This is a committee that was set up and established by our government for the purposes of working across partisan lines with all parliamentarians, including senators from this chamber.

The work of this committee has produced concrete recommendations which I had been acting on expeditiously including the creation of a national coordinator to fight foreign interference, as well as moving forward with the creation of a foreign agent registry, but in the right way given some of the concerns expressed to me directly vis-à-vis diaspora communities and the like.

With regard to your specific concerns around the makeup of that committee, I do commit to relaying your concerns to the government, but I do agree that it needs to have broad representation as was originally envisioned when we set up this committee.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, we welcome today the Honourable Marco E. L. Mendicino, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Safety. I wish to remind colleagues that questions to the minister must relate to his ministerial responsibilities.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, senators do not need to stand. Questions are limited to one minute and responses to one-and-a-half minutes. The reading clerk will stand 10 seconds before the expiry of these times. Question Period will last one hour.

[English]

Hon. Leo Housakos: Minister, here we are again, the exact same spot as one year ago. I asked you then about my bill for a foreign agent registry. You said it was a good idea, but clearly you kicked the can down the road. I suspect, minister, we will be here again next year this time still kicking this can down the road given the fact that you committed to tabling legislation only in the fall.

You claimed months ago that the RCMP had shut down illegal People’s Republic of China police stations in Canada. Two stations in Montreal actually remain open, and we now know they received funding from your own government. Why were we led to believe those stations had been shut down? Did the RCMP lie to you, minister, or did you take creative licence with the truth? Is it incompetence on behalf of the RCMP or does the incompetence lie with you?

Hon. Marco E. L. Mendicino, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Safety: Thank you, senator, nice to see you again in this chamber. I do recall my appearance from a year ago. I am more optimistic than you in the progress we have made around the creation of a foreign agent registry.

As you have seen, we have been conducting robust public consultations on how best to create that new legal instrument to promote transparency around what is legitimate diplomatic activity while at the same time deterring and ferreting out any foreign activities which go beyond the conventions of legitimate diplomacy and may spill over into foreign interference.

It is my sincere hope that as a result of the consultations in which I observed a strong consensus on the need for the creation of this bill that we are able to create it in a way that is consistent with the concerns that have been expressed to me by diaspora communities who are the targets of foreign interference and consistent with the principles of the Charter.

Tracing back to our first exchange, senator, I think we have made significant progress, and I believe that next year at this time we will have a registry in place.

Hon. Kim Pate: Welcome, minister. Recently, you reiterated your laudable support for the automatic expungement of criminal records and the implementation of such a model.

Could you please update us on the progress of your work to implement an automated pardon system, including how you’re considering: one, historical convictions, for instance soliciting, which disproportionately impacts women and which is currently missing from the list of historical convictions; and two, the impacts and contributions of records to the continued overrepresentation in our criminal, legal and prison systems of the poor, those with disabling mental health issues and racialized people, especially Indigenous women who now make up 50% of the federal prison population, many of whom have also been convicted of violent offences largely in response to their experiences of violence?

Hon. Marco E. L. Mendicino, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Safety: First of all, I want to say that I share your concerns. Yes, it is very difficult time for the policing community. I attended the funerals of all those who lost their lives in the line of duty.

I am really touched by their sacrifice; it is what motivates both me and the government. In my opinion, the only way we can reduce gun violence is with a comprehensive plan that includes three pillars. The first consists in strong borders, and we have already invested $450 million in that. The second is a prevention strategy, and we are investing $250 million to build community services in order to address social determinants. And finally, the third consists in strong laws, like Bill C-21, that will facilitate the implementation of a national ban on assault weapons.

I hope you, and all the senators, will take advantage of the technical briefing on this subject tomorrow.

[English]

Hon. Denise Batters: Minister, with every avenue your government employs to fix this Beijing interference scandal, all roads lead to the Trudeau Foundation. The Prime Minister chose Morris Rosenberg to report on foreign election interference. He was the Trudeau Foundation CEO at the time of the infamous Beijing donation. His conclusion? Nothing to see here.

The Trudeau Foundation was invisible in Special Rapporteur David Johnston’s 55-page report. Johnston, himself a Trudeau Foundation member, concluded he’d replace the public inquiry Canadians want with more “Special Rapporteuring.” To counter questions about his close ties to PM Trudeau, Johnston sought an independent legal opinion from another Trudeau Foundation alumnus, Frank Iacobucci. And the two security committees tasked with this scandal? NSIRA has two Trudeau Foundation alumni, including the chair, while the lone senator on NSICOP is also a Trudeau Foundation alumnus.

Given this pattern, why should Canadians trust they will get the answers they deserve on this shocking interference scandal?

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: Thank you, Minister Mendicino. Welcome to the Senate. Thank you for being here to answer our questions.

My question is with regard to foreign interference. I want to suggest a third option. There are two options that are being discussed publicly, the public inquiry and certainly the process that Mr. Johnston has suggested. But I think each has its strengths and weaknesses, and certainly we have a bit of an impasse over in your chamber.

I would like to suggest a third option that would combine the two, which would look at a public inquiry led by a judge but still have an active role for NSICOP and NSIRA to review the materials at the beginning and at the end of such a process.

I think it’s also important for the inquiry to look at interference of all kinds, be it political, economic or social, and from all countries. It’s a problem that has existed for a while. Would you consider such a third option at this point?

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: In the last six months, nine police officers have been killed in the line of duty in Canada. None of these murders could have been prevented by the nature or the content of your Bill C-21. The violence responsible for the many shootings across the country in no way relates to the restrictions in your bill. These are criminals using unregistered firearms to kill.

When the violence isn’t linked to organized crime, the murders are being committed by people suffering from mental illness who are out on the streets when they should be in institutions.

If you take the time, as I have, to examine the origins of the violence, don’t you find it discouraging to see how much time public servants are spending trying to classify firearms rather than looking for immediate solutions to this violence? I’m talking about judicial remedies, law enforcement and medical solutions.

Hon. Marco E. L. Mendicino, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Safety: Thank you for the question, senator.

The road to reconciliation is truly challenging. We have a plan founded on relationships with Indigenous communities and based on good faith. I think we need to continue with a plan of engagement that will result in meaningful initiatives.

Take, for example, the Aboriginal Community Safety Planning Initiative. We have already announced the reopening of Indigenous police services in the James Smith Cree Nation in Nunavut and in the Siksika Nation in Alberta, so there are precedents on which we can build future initiatives.

The government also intends to introduce a new bill to recognize that Indigenous police services are an essential service, just as they are in non-Indigenous communities. I am working with Indigenous leaders on that.

Hon. Renée Dupuis: Welcome, minister. For decades, many First Nations have been asking the federal government for adequate police and public safety services.

For example, I am thinking of the James Smith Cree Nation in Saskatchewan, where tragic events have led to the death of community members. This community has asked the government to put in place Indigenous police services.

I am also thinking of the legal action taken, including by the First Nation of Pekuakamiulnuatsh, in Quebec, against the federal government. A decision by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal confirmed that inadequate funding constitutes discrimination.

In the 2023-24 departmental plan, a joint plan that you submitted with the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, you indicated that promoting public safety approaches led by Indigenous peoples remains an absolute priority.

Minister, what is your action plan and what deadlines does your department have for eliminating this discrimination against First Nations and putting in place police services under the authority of each First Nation?

Hon. Marco E. L. Mendicino, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Safety: Thank you very much for the thoughtful question, senator. I would begin by underlining that foreign interference impacts every aspect of life: our economy, our democratic institutions — including some of the profoundly concerning reports that we’ve heard around parliamentarians — and, equally, communities themselves. The degree to which we are seeing transnational repression impact for the purposes of discouraging members of the communities from fully participating in their communities is one of the singular motivations that has seen us create new authorities and new mechanisms of transparency.

It is that last value that I want to take a quick moment to expand on. Even as the debate continues on what the best path forward is, for me, and based on the conversations that I have had with Canadians, we have to put them at the centre of this exercise. I believe that by having public hearings that engage Canadians directly and thoughtfully on the tools we need to equip our establishment with to protect ourselves from foreign interference is the way to refine these tools to ensure we are dealing with and reducing foreign interference and building the confidence of Canadians in our institutions.