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Decentralized Democracy

Hon. Pat Duncan: Senator Arnot, will you take a question?

What’s troubled me about the amendment before us — and it goes to the discussion of the definitions — and what has struck me throughout this debate is that there are as many definitions of what constitutes “consultation” as there are First Nations Indigenous groups across this country.

Consultation means different things to different people, and there’s no consultation protocol that exists in the Government of Canada. That’s part of the problem. We have constitutionally protected rights. Senator Dalphond has spoken to that.

This amendment, from what I’ve heard, is redundant if we don’t clarify exactly what it’s supposed to do, which would be to provide a definition of “consultation.” For that reason, I’m struggling with it. I appreciate the passion that you have brought forward, but I also know that when I first stood in the Yukon Legislative Assembly, I was asked, “Have you followed the consultation protocol duly negotiated with First Nations?”

That’s why I can’t support this amendment. What is “consultation”? Do you have a definition?

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Hon. Frances Lankin: Thank you, Senator Arnot. I appreciate the knowledge and experience you bring to this, both legal and in terms of working with and supporting First Nations in your province and beyond.

First of all, we can all have different opinions. In my opinion, there is a potential downside, but putting that aside — and by the way, I agree with Senator Patterson on a lot of what he has said regarding what has not been done to include Innu people. I have no complaints about what he has said.

What I want to ask you and the others who have made this point is this: What makes you think that adding this amendment will be preventive in any way? If a government is not going to follow the Constitution, the Interpretation Act, their own legislation or a minister’s letter that says, “I messed up and we’re fixing it now,” how does this amendment ensure that the government will do it and that First Nations people won’t end up having to litigate it anyway? This does not preclude further litigation if they don’t live up to their already multiple stated obligations.

This bill is important, and I know that there are many amendments coming. Think about what we’re doing in one place or the other. Where are we attempting to make the situation better by repeating something that has already been ensured across laws? It does nothing to address the basic concerns that I’m in agreement about and which Senator Patterson has put forward.

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Hon. Andrew Cardozo: I agree very much with the intent of what you have said, Senator Arnot. I agree very much with Senator Boisvenu’s amendment, but I have — excuse me, I think I have the floor. Thank you.

I’m thinking of some of the voices we heard. When you say, “What do we have to lose? What is the downside?” My answer is, “Bill C-21.” I want to say a couple of things. I look to PolySeSouvient, which said:

We recommend that the Senate pass the bill as is so that it can be implemented as quickly as possible. We support Bill C-21 because of some of the very strong measures to better protect victims of intimate violence, as well as the public safety potential of the freeze on handgun purchases in addition to other measures.

We can try to make every bill perfect, but we live in the real world. The chaos in the other place is enormous. Let’s not pretend it’s not happening. The chance of getting Bill C-21 passed by sending it back to the House — are you prepared to give that up to ensure your amendment, which Senator Lankin just outlined is ensured in many places? Adding it here wouldn’t ensure it any further, in my view.

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