Paula Simons, Alberta, Treaty 6 territory.

[Translation]

Ms. Latimer, I was really disturbed to hear you speak about places outside SIUs where people are being kept in what is de facto solitary confinement. Can you tell us what kinds of places, and if they are not in the SIUs, is anyone tracking what’s happening in those informal segregation units?

With the SIU, there are rules and there is oversight. If I’m put in a cell and it’s functionally a segregation unit, is anyone tracking that? Do any of you have reliable data about how many people may be kept in those conditions in a given month or quarter?

Maybe a quick question for each of the three of you. We know that people with mental illness are disproportionately represented in the prison population. Of the people who are being kept in SIUs or other solitary confinement type of situations, what percentage of them would you say, are suffering from a mental illness, whether that’s a psychotic condition, profound depression or suicidal ideation? What percentage would it be?

The question I have in my head will work just as well for the second panel.

This has been somewhat depressing. Ms. Campbell, when you described the 47-hour trick that combined with Ms. Latimer’s earlier testimony about creating — I don’t want to call them secret segregation units. I don’t know what the term is. Ghost cells?

What is it about the culture of corrections that leads to this? I worry now, listening to you, Ms. Latimer and Mr. Spratt, that the changes Senator Pate is proposing in the bill will not be a solution because it doesn’t encompass all the tricks that you’re describing.

Mr. Spratt, let me ask you, the way the bill is written, if somebody is in segregation or whatever we’re calling it now — a structured intervention unit — for more than 48 hours, this would require an action to be referred to a judge. But if somebody is kept in a ghost cell, presumably that wouldn’t kick in. If somebody is kept for 45 hours and then put back in 24 hours later for another 45 hours, that would never kick in.

At what point, could this actually be practicable for people who are seeking redress?