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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Jun/6/24 12:53:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are in 2024, 19 years after the Auditor General's 2005 report that covered the 10 years of the Conservative government. Despite that, Sustainable Development Technology Canada still exists. There is a certain loss of control over public funds. That has never been resolved. The Conservatives are trying to create a Liberal scandal with today's motion. I would like to make a scandal out of the new Conservative Liberal coalition because, honestly, this issue transcends parties. Ultimately, the federal government's mismanagement is not just a Liberal problem, it is a Conservative one as well.

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Jun/6/24 12:54:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have good news for my hon. colleague from the Bloc from the Office of the Auditor General. In the year 2017, the Auditor General offered a clean bill of health to Sustainable Development Technologies Canada, which was established by the former Conservative government. What happened after that was an Auditor General report that looked at the period thereafter, when the NDP-Liberal government was in power. What happened? Corruption happened. Call in the Mounties.

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Mr. Ryan Williams (Bay of Quinte, CPC)

Jun/6/24 12:55:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the response of the government is incredible to Canadians. It is not just about this issue or this scandal, as there have been so many this morning. At the security and public safety committee meeting this morning, they were trying to figure out foreign interference. Certain MPs were involved in foreign interference and foreign entities on our own soil. The member for Pickering—Uxbridge said boo hoo, we should get over it. That was a perfect response. When we look at this scandal, this epic scandal for Canadians, of course the Liberals say to get over it, that they will fold it into the government and there is nothing to see here. However, there is much to see. Should Canadians get over it?

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Jun/6/24 12:55:56 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, obviously, those were very concerning comments raised by my hon. colleague, the member for Bay of Quinte. Of course, Canadians should not get over a question of foreign interference and people acting in the interests of foreign state actors while serving in the House of Commons. This is a scandal that is incredibly important that Canadians should have transparency on. They want the RCMP to be able to review these documents. Canadians need to be able to get their money back. It is $120 million. Let us get serious.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Jun/6/24 12:56:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I took the advice of the Deputy Speaker this morning, and approximately one hour ago, I wrote to the Speaker to provide notice of a matter of privilege regarding the troubling statements made in the House on Tuesday evening by the member for Saskatoon West. As outlined in my letter, and as I had started to say this morning, there are two issues at play. First, there is an issue of appropriateness of the member's comments. They were troubling. They were hurtful. What is more, they were made during a debate about systemic racism. However, the member has apologized, so I am going to keep the comments to the second matter, which is still unresolved. That matter has to do with what was said in the chamber and what is now recorded in the official record. The House of Commons Procedure and Practice states on page 1227: The Debates are published under the authority of the Speaker of the House. They are compiled using the audio recording of the proceedings as well as information provided by Parliamentary Publications staff stationed on the floor of the House. It is imperative that members have confidence in what is recorded in the Hansard. The member for Saskatoon West very clearly said that an indigenous Canadian was “more likely to reoffend” because of his “racial background”. He has admitted that and has apologized. I will read into the record what appeared in the blues and what was heard at the time: “ Myles Sanderson, had a history of violent offences and had been recently released on parole, despite the prediction by the parole board that he was likely to reoffend because of his racial background.” As the member noted in his apology, and at his request, Hansard represents the same speech differently. It reads, “Myles Sanderson, had a history of violent offences and had been recently released on parole, despite the prediction by the parole board that he was likely to reoffend regardless of his racial background.” Changing the record from “because of his racial background” to “regardless of his racial background” might seem like a small change, but it fundamentally alters the meaning of what was said. The former linked criminality to one's race; the latter does the opposite. Likening criminality to one's race is rooted in racist tropes often used in regard to indigenous individuals. It is highly disturbing and racist. It is of paramount importance that the Hansard be an accurate record of what happens in this place, and it is important that the rules around editing the blues be respected, as stated on 1228 and 1229 of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice: The availability of the blues on the House of Commons’ internal website permits Members and their authorized delegates to use the web page or email to submit suggested changes for Parliamentary Publications editorial staff to consider. Members may suggest corrections to errors and minor alterations to the transcription but may not make material changes to the meaning of what was said in the House. In his apology, the member noted that he had requested that the Hansard be changed in a way that I believe is inappropriate and is outside the scope of what should be allowed. The meaning of the member's words was very clear, yet the official record has now been altered. Just last month, the member for Lethbridge raised a question of privilege regarding the Hansard's being modified without her being informed. In raising the matter, the member cited Bosc and Gagnon as well as Joseph Maingot's Parliamentary Privilege in Canada in arguing that such changes to the blues could be considered falsifying papers belonging to the House. I will not repeat those citations right now, but they remain relevant. The Speaker considered the matter, and stated on May 30 that, “it is understood that the revisions should not alter the substance and the meaning of the members' statements in the House.” The substance and the meaning of the member for Saskatoon West's statement in the House were, without a doubt, altered. I would also note that, from time to time, members seek unanimous consent of the House to correct the record. Such a remedy not only ensures that it is the decision of the whole House rather than an editorial decision as to what is entered into the record, but also ensures that there is an official record of the change being requested and being granted. Taking responsibility does not entitle the member to whitewash what actually happened. I would ask that the member reflect upon this, and I would ask that the official record actually reflect what occurred, what we all heard and what the member has admitted to having said, rather than being rewritten to avoid accountability and responsibility.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/6/24 1:02:09 p.m.
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I thank the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre for bringing that to the attention of the Chair. It will be taken under consideration, and it will come back to the House if necessary.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara (Vaughan—Woodbridge, Lib.)

Jun/6/24 1:02:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is always an honour to rise in the House and speak on the opposition motion in today's debate. I was here this morning when Parliament opened, and I listened to the opening statement by the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle, if I am not mistaken. I listened intently and heard what he had to say. The hon. member and others referenced our government's programs that were put in place during the pandemic, when approximately 60,000 Canadians passed away due to COVID, to help Canadians. I wish to state that I will be splitting my time with my wonderful friend, a great mentor and someone I look up to very much, the hon. member for Humber River—Black Creek. During the pandemic, we put in place a number of programs, such as the emergency wage subsidy and the CERB, and we assisted businesses with rent payments. The economy was frozen because of the pandemic, and I do not back away for one moment from having the backs of Canadians, businesses and our economy so that we could recover without any scarring. We know the members of the official opposition would not have had those programs and would have left Canadians to fend for themselves. They would not have had the backs of Canadians. In no way would they have demonstrated leadership. They probably would not even have recommended vaccines. If they were ever to get into power, who knows if they would even recommend measles or polio vaccines for our children because we know they do not believe in the science. I remember, if I am not mistaken, that during the debate on Brexit, the hon. member who spoke this morning was in favour of Brexit and against free trade. I wonder if he would be in favour of the CETA agreement at this point in time in his career. It is so disappointing to listen to. We, as parliamentarians, have the privilege here in the House of Commons to pontificate, to say what we wish and to thank our colleagues and our residents for their great work. We are here to do good work. However, sometimes I wonder why hon. members will mention the name of an individual, in this case, my former colleague Frank Baylis, but will not mention that individual's name or the accusations outside of the House. To me, it speaks a bit to the word “shame”, and I could use stronger language, but I want to be polite. When members mention the names of former parliamentarians or any Canadians in a disparaging way, they should have the courage or the gumption to say it outside. It is amazing how some folks in the official opposition will say unseemly things about individuals but will not say them outside of the House because they are covered under privilege. I would love for them to say those things outside to see what would happen the next morning or thereafter and to hear the apology they would have to issue. To be honest, I think it is almost cowardly. I am thankful for this moment to rise and speak to the motion of the hon. member for Carleton regarding Sustainable Development Technology Canada, an entity that has been around for over two decades and has funded over 500 companies. Our government is committed to providing support to clean-technology innovators and entrepreneurs. The recent announcement by the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry that sets out the transfer of SDTC over to new management at the National Research Council will ensure the continuity of support for Canadian clean-tech companies, will restart funding for eligible projects and will maintain the economic and environmental objectives of the SDTC tech fund. This will help advance the commercialization of clean technologies and, in so doing, will support Canada's climate goals. As a Government of Canada organization, the NRC is subject to a stringent oversight of its personnel and its finances, and it enjoys an excellent reputation, built over many decades, for the delivery of programs and services to innovative businesses, including in clean tech. In fact, the NRC's industrial research assistance program, commonly known as IRAP, originated in 1947, just after World War II, to assist Canadian companies. Canadian clean-technology companies are crucial to ensuring that Canada and the world meet their 2030 and 2050 climate commitments. The government's support has enabled Canadian companies to become global leaders in clean technologies and in the fight against climate change. We are also creating thousands of high-skilled jobs across Canada. Members may ask why this particular funding is a priority. Not just in Canada but in general, there is an acute and long-standing funding gap in the economy at the pre-commercial development and demonstration stage. This gap results from market barriers, including the low maturity of new technologies and the financial sector's aversion to the risks associated with bringing new technologies to market. Pre-commercial development of clean technologies is often less attractive to investors due to technical uncertainty, long lead times to market, unproven management teams, uncertainty regarding the pricing of environmental externalities or the substantial upfront investment required to demonstrate a new technology on a commercial scale. To address this, continued programming to incentivize the development and demonstration of pre-commercial clean technologies is needed. It is crucial that public investment remain focused on supporting Canadian innovators in the clean-tech sector, no more so than now. Companies are generating jobs and developing world-class environmental technologies to address the impacts of climate change on our economy and our environment. The government's decision to transfer SDTC programming to the National Research Council would enhance governance and oversight, provide stability for current projects and SDTC employees, and ensure continued support for homegrown clean technology innovations. I rise to speak to the motion moved by the hon. member for Carleton concerning Sustainable Development Technology Canada, or SDTC. Our government is committed to providing support to clean-technology innovators and entrepreneurs. The Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry recently announced the transfer of SDTC programming over to new management at NRC. This will ensure the continuity of support for Canadian clean-tech companies by restarting funding for eligible projects and by maintaining the economic and environmental objectives of the SDTC technology fund. This will help advance the commercialization of clean technologies and support Canada's climate goals. As a Government of Canada organization, the NRC is subject to stringent oversight of its personnel and its finances. It enjoys an excellent reputation, built over many decades, for the delivery of programs and services to innovative businesses, including those in clean tech. In fact, the NRC's industrial research assistance program was founded in 1947, just after World War II, to assist Canadian businesses. Clean technology companies are crucial to ensuring that Canada and the entire world meet their 2030 and 2050 climate commitments. The government's support has enabled Canadian companies to become global leaders in clean technologies and in the fight against climate change, while at the same time creating thousands of high-skilled jobs across Canada. My fellow members may wonder why this particular funding is a priority. Not just in Canada but in general, there is an acute and long-standing funding gap in the economy at the pre-commercial development and demonstration stage. This gap results from market barriers, including the low maturity of these new technologies and the finance sector's aversion to the risks associated with bringing new technologies to market. Pre-commercial development of clean technologies is often less attractive to investors due to technical uncertainty, long lead times to market, unproven management teams, and uncertainty about the pricing of environmental externalities or the substantial upfront investment required to demonstrate a new technology on a commercial scale. To solve this problem, we must continue to fund programming to incentivize the development and demonstration of pre-commercial clean technologies. As I finish up, I look forward to continuing my participation in the debate in questions and comments. We are here to provide accountability and transparency to our constituents at all times. We all should do that as members of Parliament, including in this case with SDTC. I applaud the measures taken by the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry and the steps taken after the Auditor General's report. I regard the Auditor General's report as having a high degree of value and service.

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Mr. James Bezan (Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, CPC)

Jun/6/24 1:13:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am surprised that the member spoke almost the entire time and never even mentioned the Auditor General's report, which found that 123 million dollars' worth of contracts violated the conflict of interest rules at the green slush fund, the SDTC. We are talking about 76 million dollars' worth of projects that were given to Liberal friends and insiders. We also know that 12 million dollars' worth were actually ineligible for funding and were in violation of conflict of interest policies. I have been here a long time, 20 years, and I was here at the tail end of the adscam under the Chrétien Liberals. We have now witnessed, since the Prime Minister came to power, the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the WE scam, arrive scam and now the green slush fund scandal, just to name a few. Is this Liberal incompetence? Is it Liberal corruption? Is it Liberal complicity? We are calling for a RCMP investigation because the current issue is a breach of trust as well as fraudulent behaviour. Would he agree that we have to call the RCMP in here? Is it the responsibility of, and does it falls on the head of and under the accountability of, the Minister of Industry, or is it, again, Scott Brison's problem?

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/6/24 1:14:22 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, first of all, SDTC is and was an organization at arm's length from the government. Whatever lapses there were in governance were pointed out. I did also read the Auditor General's report. If contribution agreements were signed between parties that did not meet the bar of certain thresholds, they have been identified. I wish to thank the Auditor General for their work. There needs to be transparency and accountability. The conflict commissioner is investigating on that part. Again, this entity, SDTC, has existed for 20 years and has funded 500 companies in the Canadian clean-tech sector. We need to look at the entire picture, but I do very much appreciate the Auditor General's work, all of the organization's work over the years and the reports issued to date.

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Mrs. Caroline Desbiens (Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, BQ)

Jun/6/24 1:15:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will ask my colleague to state his position on the very short 14-day deadline for the production of the documents that need to be translated. This is a good opportunity for the Liberal government to redeem itself, given the affronts Quebec has suffered in recent weeks on the subject of the French language. Can my colleague state his position and explain to our Conservative colleagues that 14 days is not enough time to have the documents translated into both official languages?

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/6/24 1:16:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the French language is very important to me and my family. My children are in French immersion in Ontario. I agree with the member that all documents, not only in this situation, but in all cases, must be translated, whether from English to French or vice versa. Our government always supports the French language across Canada.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Jun/6/24 1:16:48 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, whistle-blowers were raising serious concerns for years about conflict of interest and gross mismanagement of public funds, but their complaints were ignored; they were never taken seriously. Can the member explain why it took the minister so long to act on the issues?

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/6/24 1:17:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. member for Nunavut for her advocacy for the issues in northern Canada and her riding. The Minister of Innovation, Science and Technology took concrete steps immediately when the situation arose, in terms of acting and putting in force measures to stop SDTC from any more contributions or signing contribution agreements. As for the decisions, in terms of moving SDTC to within NRC Canada and combining it with the industrial research assistance program, in 2026-27, the new Canadian innovation corporation, I believe it is called, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Technology has acted swiftly, prudently and effectively.

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Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)

Jun/6/24 1:18:03 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is great to see you in the chair, as always. For me, seeing a woman in the chair is always very encouraging. It is great, especially when it is a beautiful woman. I think we could all agree on that. As we have the discussion, we need to remember what the role of the Auditor General is, which is being independent and doing the job that we appoint them to do. I wish we were not talking about this particular issue today, but we are. The Auditor General has done what we expected, the job that was required. Now we need to do the work that we need to do to correct the inadequacies. The Government of Canada of course remains committed to ensuring that public investments continue to advance the commercialization of homegrown clean technology in support of Canada's priorities to lead the fight against climate change and to create high-skilled jobs in Canada. This is certainly something that we all support, especially given the issues of climate change and the opportunities to look at commercialization of initiatives that can advance many of the opportunities for Canadian companies. The government is now transferring Sustainable Development Technology Canada programming to National Research Council Canada. This change will enhance governance and restore public confidence after the recent reviews that we have heard about, including the fact-finding exercise that was run by an independent third party, Raymond Chabot Grant Thornton, and the report of the Office of the Auditor General that revealed lapses in SDTC's governance, which was very disappointing. The Government of Canada agrees with the finding of the Auditor General's report on SDTC. We acknowledge the areas identified for improving governance, accountability and conflict of interest practices. Unfortunately, this should have been done earlier, but we are now dealing with it, and the minister has put the right check boxes in place now, I believe. The government has demonstrated that it is committed to ensuring that organizations that receive federal funding act in the best interest of Canadians. The government reacted quickly in response to the findings of the multiple reviews of SDTC's operations. In response to the RCGT report, ISED developed a management response and action plan which set out 22 action items aimed at improving SDTC's governance, conflict of interest management and human resources practices, as well as at enhancing ISED's oversight of SDTC to ensure that SDTC is in full compliance with its contribution agreement. Chief among those oversight enhancements are actions that clarify and improve SDTC's reporting requirements, which provide ISED with better insight into SDTC's management of public funds as well as improved conflict of interest policies. Importantly, SDTC will be required to declare and document its management of conflicts of interest and report them to ISED. These enhanced reporting requirements and processes are critical to restoring confidence in the delivery of public funds. However, the government has decided to go even further. Just as the government has high standards for the use of government funds, we also expect employees to benefit from a healthy and respectful work environment. This is why, in addition to the RCGT fact-finding exercise, the government appointed a third party law firm to undertake a fact-finding review of alleged breaches of labour and employment practices and policies at SDTC. The fact-finding review, which is publicly available, concluded that SDTC's leadership did not engage in the type of repetitive, vexatious or major incident conduct that would constitute harassment, bullying or workplace violence under the current applicable standards. Nonetheless, we recognize that the results of the OAG and the RCGT reviews of SDTC demanded important change. That is why, on June 4, a new delivery approach for SDTC programming was announced. This approach includes transitioning SDTC programming and employees to National Research Council Canada, a Crown agency that is subject to rigorous and stringent oversight of its personnel and of its finances. The NRC has a wealth of experience in supporting innovative, tech-focused small and medium-sized companies under programs such as the industrial research assistance program, referred to as IRAP. This makes it an ideal choice to take on the responsibility of supporting homegrown clean-technology companies. NRC and IRAP have a dedicated clean-tech sector team that has been accelerating the scale-up and commercialization of clean tech since 2017, offering tailored advice and one-to-one matching with multinational enterprises, end-users and investors. This is something that is very important to Canada. With its proven track record of supporting small and medium-sized Canadian businesses, the NRC is well-positioned to rebuild public trust while increasing accountability and transparency in the delivery of SDTC programming and funding. The transition of SDTC programming and employees to the NRC will take time. Moreover, this needs to be done right. That is why the government appointed new SDTC leadership, made up of highly regarded and trusted individuals, to lead the important work to transfer programming and the employees to the NRC. SDTC will also resume funding under this new, rigorous governance model for eligible new projects in a sector that is vital to our country's economy and clean growth transition. In line with the Auditor General's findings, ISED will enhance oversight and monitoring of funding during this transition period. The government is focused on ensuring the continuity of support for Canadian clean-tech companies, restarting funding for eligible projects and maintaining the economic and environmental objectives of SDTC's SD tech fund. This will help advance the commercialization of clean technologies and accelerate the growth of innovative businesses that support Canada's climate goals and create economic benefits for Canadians. Canadian clean-technology companies are crucial for ensuring that Canada and the world meet their 2030 and 2050 climate commitments. The government's support has enabled such companies to become global leaders in the fight against climate change while enabling a clean growth economy and creating thousands of high-skilled jobs across Canada. It is crucial that we maintain our efforts to assist Canadian innovators in the clean tech sector. The government has done its due diligence. Neither the OAG nor any of the other fact-finding reviews found any evidence of fraudulent or other criminal activities by any officer, director, member or employee of SDTC. While some of the investigations concluded that there were lapses in governance, including the management of conflicts of interest, these conclusions did not rise to the level of fraud or other criminal activity. It is now time to focus on the path forward for new clean-technology projects, as support for innovators and entrepreneurs is renewed under the new leadership and transition to the NRC.

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Mr. Ryan Williams (Bay of Quinte, CPC)

Jun/6/24 1:27:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are talking about a deep level of corruption that should have been found earlier. Whistle-blowers caught this. If not for them, we would not be here. How many times have we said in the House of Commons that, if it wasn't for whistle-blowers or this publication or journalism, we would not be here? There are too many times. Perhaps a better way than looking at maybe just one instance of having one organization have a different mandate would be to really look at what the Ethics Commissioner's role is. Here is the problem with the government. We can look at the Information Commissioner, whose budget has been slashed. However, here is the stat that just boggles me and would boggle Canadians' minds: The government slashed the salary of the Ethics Commissioner by more than $110,000 per year. We are looking at where the priorities lie with the government, and we talk about corruption all the time here. Why was the priority not in ethics in the government from the start, so we could stop the corruption that we are seeing almost every day?

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Hon. Judy A. Sgro

Jun/6/24 1:28:22 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if the member is asking how the department is dealing with a lot of the budgetary issues, all areas of government were asked to take a 3% cut, to my knowledge. I believe it was for everybody. I would remind my hon. colleague that, with three fact-finding investigations into this issue, neither the Auditor General nor any others found any evidence of fraudulent or criminal activities by any of the officers, directors, members or employees.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Jun/6/24 1:29:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in her speech, my colleague said that we needed to ensure follow-up with companies who had received funds from Sustainable Development Technology Canada. The question remains unanswered. How will the government make sure that innovation continues to grow and that investments continue to be made in the energy transition and SMEs, many of which are in Quebec? For the past year, things have stagnated, and investments have ceased. I am very concerned. In recent years, the government has failed to protect the interests of clean energies and emerging innovations, and the situation has not changed.

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Hon. Judy A. Sgro

Jun/6/24 1:29:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would remind the member that, in some of the evidence put forward earlier, over 500 companies were approved and went on to excel in clean technology. I am quite certain that, under the new leadership and after transitioning, the NRC will continue to ensure that some of the best companies receive the opportunity to move forward with more clean technology.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Jun/6/24 1:30:26 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, Canadians absolutely expect their tax dollars to be managed responsibly, and the public needs assurance that government will go even further than what the Liberal government has done to restore public confidence. At this point, I have not yet heard any Liberal intervention that restores my confidence. Can the member share with us what the Liberal Party will do to get that done and whether Liberals will vote in favour of this motion to show that they will work toward restoring public confidence?

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Hon. Judy A. Sgro

Jun/6/24 1:31:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I believe all 338 of us in the House want to ensure that all the government's programs and funding efforts are put forward in the very best interest of all of us. I am quite confident that, with the transition to the new leadership under the NRC, there will be opportunities for many more companies to excel, in excess of the 500 that I referred to earlier. There will be lots of opportunities for clean technologies to come forward and help us in our battle with climate change.

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