Senator Patterson: Senator, I think you were saying we have to pass the bill or there will be a vacuum in the law. Would you say that what you’re advising the Senate is that although the bill may have flaws, which I believe may be corrected by the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee, it’s still better than doing nothing?

Senator Lankin: Thank you, Senator McCallum. I’m not going to speak about the substance of the bill. I believe you’re really asking me about the process.

Yes, that is a key job for the Senate. In fact, it is a mandated approach suggested and ruled on by the Supreme Court of Canada in their 2014 decision, without a doubt. I also believe it is the job of the elected politicians in the House of Commons. I also believe it is the job of all people in all orders of government. I don’t think we are the only place, but I sometimes think we are the last place. We are certainly, with a constitutional point of view, responsible — it’s the Supreme Court point of view — for ensuring constitutionality and compliance with the Charter, for representing the voices of minority groups — in particular, Indigenous peoples — regional voices and technical drafting voices.

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Do we have enough time to do all that well and often? No. I’m going to move, again, from the systemic to the situational.

I am a feminist. I am a woman. Many of you know from previous remarks that I am a survivor of sexual assault. I want this law to be right, and I want everybody’s point of view to inform it. What will happen now is a stopgap over the summer until this is examined in a different way. I believe that is better than nothing, but I do not at all dismiss the importance that we all place on ensuring that we hear those voices.

We will hear them in a novel way, which will be after this provision but with the opportunity to amend it. Thank you.

Hon. Mobina S. B. Jaffer: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak to Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (self-induced extreme intoxication).

Senators, I have to say to you that I am very concerned with the process we have followed on Bill C-28. This is such an important issue in criminal law. But I also understand that because of the big gap that we currently have in the criminal law as a result of the recent Supreme Court decisions in R. v. Brown and R. v. Sullivan, I understand we have to act quickly and I accept that.

Senator Gold, I have one request of you: If the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee will study Bill C-28 — which I have no doubt we will — and provide recommendations to the Senate and Minister of Justice, the Minister of Justice will take our recommendations seriously and respond to us in the time we have set aside. Hopefully, if there are any recommendations, we will implement them.

Honourable senators, I had a much longer speech prepared, but out of respect for my colleagues and everyone who was able to speak, I will raise a few issues that I seriously think need to be looked at. Perhaps the committee will not agree with me.

I asked the minister, as well; we do not know what negligence looks like for extreme intoxication. Senators Cotter, Simons and I asked this question of Minister Lametti when he was here. I must admit that I did not find his answer satisfactory.

For example, what do we do with young adults and teenagers who might not know their tolerance? Would we exonerate all of them under the defence of extreme intoxication because they could not be negligent? Must the accused know their own limits to be negligent?

Second, we do not know whether the burden to prove negligence for extreme intoxication is appropriate.

If Bill C-28 passes, the Crown will need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was negligence on the part of the defendant. However, as Senator Boisvenu pointed out, it most likely will lead to a battle between expert witnesses. How will a jury or even a judge answer these incredibly hard questions?

Third, we do not know if we should or should not add a presumption in Bill C-28 that alcohol alone cannot cause extreme intoxication. As such, we are applying a defence which has now lost its context.

Senators, there are many questions that the committee will look at, I’m sure, but what will it take before the courts to prove negligence in reaching a state of extreme self-induced intoxication? How will the prosecutor be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused was negligent in not objectively foreseeing that his consumption would lead to extreme intoxication and to harm? Especially for young adults who do not know their limits, how will negligence be applied?

Senators, I have heard so much this evening and throughout the debate that we must fill the gap. Women’s groups want this. First of all, I respectfully say to you that women’s groups are not a homogenous group. Some women’s groups want it. It is not a homogenous group.

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Secondly, as a young lawyer, I tried to convince my client that if the judge found the accused liable, she would be protected. Four years later, he returned home and killed her. So to just say that we are protecting the vulnerable and women is not enough. By acting so fast, we will build a false idea within vulnerable groups that there is protection.

There is never protection if the resources are not there to protect the women. Thank you, honourable senators.

Hon. Paula Simons: Senator Gold, I want to thank you for that really interesting speech. It made me wish I had the privilege of being a student in one of your constitutional law classes. I hope you don’t mind, because we won’t have the chance to hear from other witnesses, if I ask you a question that may seem simple because I did not go to law school.

I want to understand what impact this would have at sentencing. If you’re being pre-emptively found to be criminally negligent, would that be something the judge would also consider at sentencing, or is it only to establish the criminal intent itself?