The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Dupuis, will you take a question?

Hon. Renée Dupuis: Honourable senators, in my opinion, the proposed amendment currently before us creates a situation that limits the government’s obligation to consult. The amendment states, and I quote:

 . . . consult with a variety of Indigenous governing bodies and a variety of Indigenous organizations in order to take into account the unique circumstances and needs of those Indigenous groups, communities and peoples.

I think it’s important to realize that the rights entrenched and recognized by section 35 require the government to do more than consult. They require the government to potentially change its plans, whether those plans are regulations, legislation or activities.

Furthermore, the legislation that we passed to implement the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples imposes even more obligations on the Crown, given that it must develop plans, but in collaboration with Indigenous peoples. This means co-developing projects, activities and regulations.

Therefore, since recognized rights that create obligations for the Crown already exist in our legal system, I presume that we, as legislators, would not want to ultimately reduce the protection afforded by these rights by limiting ourselves, as proposed here, to consulting Indigenous peoples based on their constitutional rights in order to take their circumstances into account.

I am therefore unable to support this amendment.

Thank you.

Hon. Tony Dean: Honourable senators, I am standing up to add some thoughts to those we’ve heard over the last 10 or 15 minutes. I start by thanking Senator Boisvenu for his statement and his proposed amendment. I also look to my colleagues, including Senator Lankin and Senator Dupuis, who artfully put that amendment into context, and that, to me, seems pretty definitive and determinative. So thank you for that, Senator Dupuis.

Indigenous consultation and engagement, we all agree, is hugely important. I’m sure we all agree as well that those of us who have engaged in this practice, or attempted to, will know that it is an enormously complex and challenging and worthwhile and constitutionally required practice. We have an extensive range, as most or all of you know, of governance arrangements across this country, as they vary by province and by geographic area and by the nature of the makeup of an extensive and unique fabric of the governance arrangements that are practised by our Indigenous colleagues, our Indigenous brothers and sisters.

That complexity takes nothing away from the constitutional right to consult. It, in fact, makes this more important. It is fair to acknowledge that our success in consultations and engagement with Indigenous people has been mixed, to put a positive blush on it. It’s work-in-progress; it’s work in process. And, absolutely, we haven’t got it right. An amendment to this bill isn’t going to get it right. The Constitution is clear in its requirements. We all know what is required of government.

But let me say this: Success has been mixed, but I don’t recall any other government at the federal or provincial level having put as much time, effort, money and resources into consultations with Indigenous people as the current government has. It’s fallen short, but it’s done a hell of a good job. It’s tried hard. It’s worked hard to the point of being criticized in some quarters, irresponsibly, that perhaps it’s gone too far. Of course it’s not gone too far. It hasn’t gone far enough.

I don’t need to remind you about the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls dramatically shifting the yardstick for the better, cleaning up water on Indigenous reserves that others have failed to do for decades, for responding to calls for recognition of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which was a hard battle in this place, wasn’t it? And we all know whose side people were on. That’s all I’ll say.

I have never seen the demands and expectations that have been placed on federal departments at all levels right across this country to take Indigenous consultation and engagement seriously. That has been there. It’s on the record, and you talk to anybody in a federal department, and you are going to hear that.

We listened in our committee to Indigenous colleagues. I’d like to think that our Indigenous colleagues and brothers and sisters were heard in the committee, and I think they were.

There was mixed success in the consultations on this bill, and the government has amended the legislation as a result of that in response to concerns and toughened it up. We’ve heard Senator Dupuis’ very eloquent, important and decisive response to the amendment before us.

Colleagues, that’s all I wanted to say. I am nothing but grateful for the ability that I had to come to this country, to see this country struggle with its issues, to be part of that struggle with its issues and other struggles in here. This is an ongoing process. We’ve got more work to do. We’ve got a government that takes this seriously. We’ve got a government that did its best to hear from as many people as possible and to reflect their concerns in this legislation. I do not think that we need this amendment. Thank you very much.