44th Parl. 1st Sess.
December 7, 2023 10:00AM
- Dec/7/23 10:29:03 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I feel like I am in a kind of parallel universe this morning as I listen to the Conservatives talk about the carbon tax yet again. I have no idea what universe the Leader of the Opposition is living in.
I toured Quebec in recent months and met with over 400 housing organizations, including the Réseau québécois des OSBL d'habitation, the Réseau Solidarité Itinérance du Québec, and technical resource groups that work with homeless persons and women who are victims of domestic violence or that build social housing. No one ever talked to me about the carbon tax. What these people want is for governments to invest. They want the failed national housing strategy to be reviewed. They want the government to send Quebec a cheque so it can build real housing that people can live in. That is what people want. No one ever brought up the carbon tax to me.
What universe are the Conservatives living in?
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- Dec/7/23 10:43:22 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the carbon tax regime that the Liberal member opposite seems to keep promoting is not working. The fact that emissions keep going up is the problem. If the stated goal is to impose the carbon tax but emissions keep going up and people are suffering as a result, maybe it is time to rethink the position and the fact that it is not working. Maybe we should be investing more or opening up the free market to more technology and more rapid innovation to get to the world of more clean energy, but we can do that only if there is an equal playing field that allows the market to provide. This is something the government is not doing; it is taking, and redistributing only to ideas that match what the Liberal ideology is. That is the problem.
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- Dec/7/23 11:14:27 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I wanted to go back to the piece my hon. colleague mentioned about the carbon price tax not being a tax. The carbon pricing regime on fuel charge is not a tax in constitutional terms, according to the Supreme Court of Canada. It is revenue neutral due to the rebate program and climate action incentive funds.
What this looks like in my home province is Eel Ground first nation, or Natoaganeg, a Mi'kmaq community, receiving funding to complete energy efficiency upgrades and retrofitting its band office. Also, five schools in New Brunswick have seen the Government of Canada investing carbon pricing proceeds into improve energy efficiency.
This is what is at stake, so I would like to bring the facts back to the conversation. Could the hon. colleague comment on that?
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- Dec/7/23 11:44:45 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I hope the member is at least willing to admit that Quebeckers are disproportionately impacted by the carbon tax. The carbon tax is applied on the trains that go to Quebec, the carbon tax is applied on trucks and semis that transport goods into Quebec and that gets passed on to consumers in Quebec. They are, in fact, paying the carbon tax.
I am wondering if the member opposite would acknowledge, at the very least, that Quebeckers are getting a bad deal by this federally imposed carbon tax. Even though it is not imposed in Quebec, Quebeckers still have to pay for the damages without the rebate from the government.
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- Dec/7/23 12:15:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I asked Mr. Weston and the others questions this morning about this code of conduct, which we, as Liberals, also support. Perhaps we are doing more than my colleague thinks.
My Conservative colleagues are saying that carbon pricing is the sole reason for higher grocery prices. However, I heard them asking Mr. Weston questions this morning in that committee meeting. They recognize that there are other factors driving up costs, and that is why they want to get the companies to agree to abide by this code of conduct.
Does my hon. colleague agree with the Conservatives that carbon pricing is the only thing driving up costs, or does he think that there are there other factors at play? It cannot be both things at once.
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- Dec/7/23 12:16:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for that very good question.
Grocery bosses should not be the ones writing the code of conduct for the major grocery chains. The code should not be voluntary. It should not allow them to manage and discipline themselves. We need an independent body. That is important to the NDP.
A price on transportation-related pollution, for example, could certainly have an impact. However, food prices have risen faster than inflation for 24 months now. Corporate greed must have something to do with it. Corporations are lining their pockets and making record profits, and their executives are getting exorbitant paycheques.
We must not blame everything on the carbon tax. It does not even exist in some provinces, such as Quebec and British Columbia, where it literally has no impact.
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- Dec/7/23 12:45:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to state some facts. This is not a Liberal policy. The carbon tax was first established in British Columbia by a right-leaning Conservative government under the mask of the B.C. Liberal Party. Therefore, I find it quite interesting when I hear B.C. Conservatives in this place talking about getting rid of the federal carbon tax, which does not apply in British Columbia. I state that fact on its own.
Another truth is that the New Democrats have asked for the removal of the GST on all home heating. The Conservatives had it in their election platform, but they voted against it. In their election platform, the Conservatives had a price on carbon, but today they do not want to talk about that. It is like they have amnesia.
Let us talk about the need for a school food program. The advocacy for the need for a school food program started under the Harper government when inequality skyrocketed.
Maybe the member could talk about why he voted yesterday against the implementation of a strategy for a national school food program. Perhaps he could also correct some of the facts of why the Conservatives ran on a platform to put a price on carbon, but today they do not support that.
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- Dec/7/23 12:50:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is all about fairness. Quebec does not directly pay the cost of carbon tax 1, but it pays carbon tax 2.
I will give an example from my province. We are going to grow some mustard. For that mustard, all the inputs that go into putting seed in the ground, harvesting and shipping that grain to a processing plant is all taxed with the carbon tax. Then it gets to the plant and it is processed into mustard. Before we put that mustard on a hotdog, we pay a carbon tax for the production of the seed, the production of the mustard and the transportation into Quebec. Yes, people are going to be paying more carbon tax if they elect the Liberals.
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- Dec/7/23 1:01:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there is a PBO report that shows that Ontario families this year alone will have a net loss of $478 because of the carbon tax. In 2030, once the Liberals' measures are fully implemented, the net loss for Ontario families will be $2,316. I wonder how the member opposite sells that to the people in his riding.
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- Dec/7/23 1:18:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Governor of the Bank of Canada cited that the carbon tax is causing about a 0.15% impact on inflation. This was confirmed by the PBO. That is 15¢ on a bag of groceries that is $100.
The Conservatives are getting away with this runaway train of a disinformation campaign that the carbon tax is the major factor when it comes to grocery store prices. We know it is corporate greed, because the big grocery stores are recording record profits. The reason the Conservatives are able to get away with convincing Canadians to buy into this campaign is that the government has failed to go after the CEOs of the big grocery stores. There is no difference, really, when it comes to Liberals and Conservatives being gatekeepers for the rich and well connected.
Will the Liberals finally go after the big grocery store chains and take real, meaningful action so that it shows up at the till when people are trying to buy their groceries?
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- Dec/7/23 1:22:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to share my time today with my colleague from Elgin—Middlesex—London.
Our Conservative motion to axe the carbon tax, as we have heard so much from the Liberal government about today, is an opportunity for all members of Parliament, even those in the Liberal backbenches, including the my colleague from Winnipeg North, to stand up for their constituents. I know it will take courage, but I urge every one of them to do the right thing.
Like all MPs in this House, I am getting emails and calls from moms and dads across Canada who are struggling to pay their bills and put food on their tables. I am hearing from seniors who worked decades to save for retirement, only to see inflation eradicate their income and financial security.
As someone who represents a large rural constituency, I know how the carbon tax disproportionately impacts the people who call Westman home. If we can pass this motion, it will send a strong signal to the Prime Minister that his government needs to get serious about the cost of living crisis in Canada. If the Liberals have not yet figured it out, the Conservative team will never back down from its mission to axe the carbon tax once and for all, no matter how long it takes. We will stand up for the families, seniors, farmers and indigenous Canadians who are being crushed by the drastic cost of living.
Nothing was more insulting to the millions of Canadians trying to heat their homes this winter than when the Prime Minister decided to temporarily pause his carbon tax on only 3% of households. It is no wonder that provincial governments are up in arms. Even the NDP government in Manitoba is explicitly asking the Prime Minister to exempt home heating from his carbon tax. As for the top-up for rural Canadians, it is not even enough money to pay for the gas to take their kids to hockey practice on the weekend.
Our common-sense Conservative motion today is simple. It is not a gimmick and there are no temporary measures. It is time to axe the inflationary carbon tax for good and bring home lower prices.
Every single member of Parliament knows constituents are hurting. It does not matter if people live in rural Newfoundland or North Bay, Ontario, inflation and rising Liberal taxes are taking their toll. People are struggling to stay afloat, and the carbon tax is a giant anvil dragging them down.
We found out this week, as an example, that more than 50,000 Manitobans are now regularly using a food bank, the highest number ever recorded in the province, and while we can get bogged down in statistics, we must never forget that we are talking about people. These are seniors, students, children and indigenous Canadians who cannot afford to go the grocery store. When people do have money in their pockets, they are decreasing the quantity and sometimes the quality of the food they are buying.
This is not normal and it weighs heavily on the minds of moms and dads trying to pack their kids’ school lunch boxes. It weighs heavily on the senior whose fixed income is not keeping up with the rate of inflation. It weighs heavily on the young person who is trying desperately to pay for their education or save for a home but can barely afford their daily necessities.
I know first-hand the challenges food banks are having. I have visited the Samaritan House in Brandon and it is struggling to keep up with demand. I cannot say enough about the good work that Barbara McNish and all the volunteers do for those in need, but we as policy-makers cannot just turn a blind eye to these startling numbers.
As another example, I know the food bank in Killarney, Manitoba, is facing challenges. It recently contacted my office, as it now needs to hire a manager to run the operation as the demand on volunteers is too great. Under the Liberal government, small rural communities need to hire a manager to run a food bank. In all my years of living in Westman, I never thought in a million years that a very progressive community like Killarney would ever need to hire staff to run its food bank. It is a testament to the struggles that many are facing and it is undeniably heartbreaking.
If this is not a warning sign of how bad things have gotten out there, I do not know what is. What will it take to finally wake the Prime Minister up and get him to change direction? The rising costs of food cannot be divorced from the Liberal government's tax-and-spend policies. The carbon tax is driving up the cost of everything. It is contributing to the costs of growing our food.
Let this sink in for a moment. While the cost of groceries has never been higher, Liberals have shown no compassion for those who cannot afford to put food on the table. The carbon tax is being applied all along the entire food supply system. It gets passed down until every Canadian gets stuck with the bill. It is no wonder the Parliamentary Budget Officer said that families are seeing a net loss under this measure.
Families and seniors are getting crushed, and it is time for action. They are tired of Liberal gaslighting about how much better off they are under the carbon tax rebate scheme. The good people of Westman are not falling for the Liberals' talking points; at the end of the day, they do not have more money in their wallets.
Just this morning, Canada's Food Price Report stated that the average family of four is expected to spend $16,297.20 on food in 2024. As we have heard my colleagues say in this House before, that is seven hundred and some dollars more than what they had to spend last year.
I want to finish my talk today by just saying that this is an outlandish tax that the government is trying to place on everyone in Canada and their cost of living today. The government could have passed Bill C-234, which was a bill to take the carbon tax off heating barns and greenhouses in Canada and drying grain. The cost of food is directly proportional to the cost of the inputs that it takes to grow these products. We are talking about greenhouse produce that is extremely healthy and is exported all over the world, particularly to our neighbours in the United States to the south of us.
Maybe some of my colleagues are not aware of what really happens when farmers are drying grain. It is not just a luxury; it is an absolute necessity, because farmers need to be able to store that crop when they take it off. If they do not, that grain could spoil, costing the producers millions of dollars across the country. It could be billions. This is something that is very much a necessity.
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- Dec/7/23 1:31:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will ask my colleague the same question I asked the leader of the official opposition earlier.
There were all sorts of food drives over the weekend. I met with organizations in my riding, very dedicated people, food banks, families, people involved in housing as well, who build social housing. They talked to me and what they want are massive investments to build social housing for families, for women who are victims of domestic abuse and for single mothers.
Again, no one talked to me about the carbon tax and the related rising costs in Quebec. What they need is housing. No one talked to me about the carbon tax. The carbon tax does not apply in Quebec.
What is it going to take for Conservatives to understand that this does not apply in Quebec? What would my colleague say to the woman who says we need investments in social housing?
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- Dec/7/23 1:32:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, if he does not think that the carbon tax impacts him in Quebec, then he has not been listening to my colleagues in the Conservative Party or many of the people in his home province. Obviously, attacks placed anywhere in Canada affect the food prices in our whole nation. That is a big part of the problem that the Bloc has not recognized.
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- Dec/7/23 1:33:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, affordability is clearly a key concern. Keeping that in mind and having heard what the member opposite had to say, I wonder how he can fix everything that he has said and square that with the following fact: According to University of Calgary economists, if the carbon tax were axed tomorrow, the people who would actually benefit the most are people who earn $250,000 or more. More to the point, 94% of people who earn $50,000 or less receive more through carbon pricing rebates than they pay in carbon pricing.
How is it that the Conservative Party is supporting giving a benefit to people who earn $250,000 or more? Are they the ones who are having the greatest affordability challenges?
An hon. member: Hear, hear!
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- Dec/7/23 1:35:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, let us talk about who is changing their tune. This member ran on a platform putting a price on carbon. Today, here he is saying that we should get rid of the carbon tax. The Conservatives ran on a platform to remove the GST on all home heating, something the NDP just brought forward. What did they do? They voted against it.
My colleague before me just talked about how eight out of 10 families will get a rebate that is larger than what they will pay in carbon tax. In fact, if someone earns $250,000 or more, then they will not. They will pay more.
The bottom line is that this is a diversion today. The Conservatives keep bringing this motion back. This is the 11th opposition day we have spent on it. It is a diversion from the fact that, as we know, the Conservatives are really fighting for those who earn over $250,000. They are not fighting for the eight in 10 families who are going to come out ahead. That is the truth.
My colleague ran on a platform to put a price on carbon and to remove the GST on home heating. Could he say why he keeps voting against that?
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- Dec/7/23 1:46:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate that and I will correct the record. I recognize that indigenous people are a huge part of our Canadian history and are a huge part of our Canadian social work. They are a huge part of our history, so I do appreciate that.
The article states, “The First Nations argue that the imposition of the price on carbon is leaving their communities worse off than others in Canada and breaching the principles of reconciliation.” The Prime Minister, in 2015, stated that the greatest relationship is that with the indigenous people. How dare he say that when we know this is one of the greatest challenges? Why are people having difficulties? It is because they cannot put the fuel they need in their snowmobiles. Gasoline is being taxed. We know food is being taxed to get up there. It costs more money. Food costs more.
At the end of the day, I am asking that every parliamentarian in here supports Canadian families, supports Canadians farmers and supports first nations, and axes the carbon tax.
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- Dec/7/23 1:50:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rose earlier on a point of order to remind my colleague that indigenous people are not ours.
My colleague went on to say that indigenous people are part of our history. They are not just part of our history. Indigenous people in my riding fight every day to get through the challenges they face because of government policies that have tried to destroy them. They say every day that they are still here. They fight every day to remind people and let each other know that they are still here. They are not just part of our history, they are still here and need to be a predominant part of the conversation moving forward.
To the question from my good friend, the 2021 election price-on-carbon platform running Conservative, why did she run on a platform to put a price on carbon, but today is running so hard against it?
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- Dec/7/23 1:51:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this morning, two of Canada's largest grocery retailer CEOs testified that the carbon tax applied to the farmer, the trucker, the food producer and themselves will get passed on to the consumer, contrary to one of the questions from a member across the way to my hon. colleague from Elgin—Middlesex—London, that the grocery retailers are putting the carbon tax in their pockets.
It is being passed on to the consumer. Would my colleague agree?
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- Dec/7/23 2:13:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise in the House and speak about some very pressing matters. Times are hard for Canadians. A new food report out today shows that Canadians will be paying an extra $700 next year to feed their families.
The Senate amendment to Bill C-234, which would have provided farm families with a much-needed break from the carbon tax, now has its passage in limbo after the Prime Minister lobbied his appointed senators in order to protect his minister.
The Prime Minister could not care less about how his policies have created two classes of Canadians, those who pay the carbon tax and those who do not. First nations are taking the government to court, arguing that the carbon pricing regime of the Prime Minister unjustly and disproportionately impacts their communities and that they will be worse off. It is time to take the carbon tax off farmers, first nations and families.
After eight years of the Prime Minister, it is time for common-sense Conservative government. The Prime Minister is just not worth the cost.
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- Dec/7/23 2:20:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, a price on pollution is an important part of a climate plan, one that addresses affordability concerns. The vast majority of Canadians receive more money in the rebate than they pay in the price of pollution.
The only group to benefit from the Conservative plan to end the climate program and to end the rebate would be the top 20% of earners, while almost everyone else would be poorer as a result of their plan. The Conservatives are fighting for the rich; they are not fighting for Canadians who are concerned about affordability.
The carbon price is both a climate measure and an affordability measure.
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