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Dec/7/23 1:03:00 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, it is clear that the Liberal government has not been making enough investments in first nations, Métis and Inuit. The Auditor General published a report earlier this year about the lack of investments to first nations regarding emergency preparedness. I wonder if the member can respond with stories that validate the lack of investments to first nations, and what the Liberals will do to make sure they are making changes so that first nations, Métis and Inuit are engaged in such things as emergency preparedness, as well as combatting climate change.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Dec/7/23 1:03:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, obviously the hon. member for Nunavut comes from an area of this country that is greatly affected by climate change. I would also say to the hon. member that members on this side of the aisle and I will always work with the member opposite to improve the lives of the people living in Nunavut, and all indigenous peoples and first nations, to ensure they have the resources to succeed, and to continue the nation-to-nation relationship and collaboration that has taken place since day one in 2015.

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, Lib.)

Dec/7/23 1:04:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I wonder what my colleague might say in response to a recent study by an economist from the University of Calgary that found, if the carbon pricing were to be cancelled today, those who would stand to lose the most would be people with lower incomes and that high-income households stood the most to gain if the tax were axed tomorrow. In fact, the report found that 94% of people who earn $50,000 or less get more through the rebate than they would ever pay in carbon pricing. I wonder what the member might have to say about that.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Dec/7/23 1:05:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the climate action incentive payments, much like other measures we have put in place, whether the Canada child benefit, the Canada workers benefit or any other measure, is meant to make life more affordable for our residents, improve their quality of life, pull people out of poverty and, yes, at the same time, be a win for the environment in reducing emissions. We will continue on the path of making sure we have the backs of Canadians, particularly at this time of global inflation. Thankfully, inflation is dissipating, but the cost of living is still very high. The climate action incentive payments are just another measure to help Canadians and Canadian families, particularly those who are lower-income Canadians.

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Mr. Chris Bittle (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities, Lib.)

Dec/7/23 1:06:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I was reflecting, as I believe this is the 18th time we are debating a motion similar to this in this Parliament, back to the last election. In our debates, I said it was refreshing that all of the main parties at that time, in 2021, were running on a price on pollution, including all the members of the Conservative Party who sit here right now. We were actually talking about how we fight climate change. Unfortunately, we are back to a time where one of the parties in the House is debating whether we should fight climate change at all. Its members can see it with their own eyes. They represent ridings that have had severe drought, flooding, fires and hurricanes. Their silence is deafening. The only plank of their environmental plan that comes through, as this is the 18th time we are debating this, is recycling slogans. There are no facts behind anything they are coming forward with. They say that the price on pollution does not work. It is false: 30% of our reductions can be attributed to the price on pollution. That is 30% of our reductions; it is working. An hon. member: That's not true. Mr. Chris Bittle: Mr. Speaker, they are heckling me and saying it is not true. They will not stand up at any point and show any facts. They will yell, slam their desks and heckle. The member for Provencher, who is heckling, represents a province that has suffered from the effects of climate with significant drought, and he is laughing. He thinks this is funny. He thinks his province going through severe drought is funny enough to laugh in the House of Commons. He will get up to talk about the price of food, but laugh when there are drought conditions on the Prairies. What is driving that price? Conservatives are going to talk about the price on pollution, but the impact of food increases is happening the same in the United States, which does not have a price on pollution. They cannot explain that. They will not bring forward any facts on that issue. They will not talk about the rebate Canadians get. They will not talk about how eight out of 10 families get more money back. They will not talk about the report out of the University of Calgary that shows 94% of individuals and families who make less than $50,000 a year end up with more. They want to get rid of the price on pollution. What would that do? It would go straight back to their friends the oil companies. It would go straight back to companies I believe last year made $120 billion in profit, and they claim this trickle-down approach would come back to us somehow. What it would mean is more stock buybacks and no spending on climate progress. It would not have any benefit to us Canadians across the board. Canadians who count on their climate action incentive would look to any government that cancels that and ask where the money is. They do not mention the rebate because they do not want to mention they would cut that rebate, which helps so many families across the board. They want to take Canada out of international discussions. According to the World Bank, there are 73 carbon pricing initiatives currently in place or scheduled to be in place across the globe. These include in Norway, Denmark, the United Kingdom, Chile, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Germany and of course Ukraine. We cannot forget about Ukraine, which the members on the other side want to make a splash about. They say that they cannot afford a free trade agreement with Ukraine because it mentions a price on pollution. At the end of the day, they are willing to throw Ukraine under the bus. They are willing to throw it under the bus at a time when its president wants this free trade agreement. They talk about lowering the price of food, but they are voting against a country that is one of the breadbaskets of the world. Ukraine needs Canada's support, and this is what it has asked for. The Conservative Party members are so ideological on pricing pollution, when a huge part of the world is behind this, yet they are going to take Canada back. They are going to take Canada back to the benefit of oil companies. They do not care about defending allies such as Ukraine, and they do not care about being a leader on climate. I know that the member from Manitoba laughs that his province is under a drought, but what about the farmers in his community whose yields are down significantly? This is not because of a government policy, but because of the impacts of climate change. However, we do not hear that in any of their speeches. The Conservatives, who do not want a price on pollution and claim that reducing pollution should be borne by industry, should be getting behind the government's latest announcement, which is an emissions reduction plan that would put a cap-and-trade system in place on the oil and gas sector to reduce 30% of emissions, but we are not going to hear that. We are not going to hear support for that plan because, fundamentally, I do not believe that they believe that climate change is real. It is sad that we are back to a Conservative Party that does not believe in climate change. We have heard speech after speech in the House today, and I am not hearing individuals talk about the impacts in their community. However, they can see it with their own eyes. I remember debating a similar motion to this and the smoke was so bad in Ottawa that we could not see across the river in to Gatineau the impacts of climate change were so real. Again, they are laughing. The hon. member from Saskatoon is making a joke. The forest fires in Quebec were so bad, but he stands here and makes a joke. The Conservatives are climate change deniers. This is a big joke to them. They do not care that grain yields are down on the Prairies. They do not care that forests the size of, I believe, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador burnt down this year, but that is a joke. First the member for Provencher laughed at the fact that there is drought in his province, and the member from Saskatoon laughs at climate change. It is a joke to them. This is an existential crisis facing Canadians. However, Conservatives are now claiming that there is no drought on the Prairies. The grain yields are down across the prairies, I guess, by magic—

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The Deputy Speaker

Dec/7/23 1:14:02 p.m.
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We have a point of order from the hon. member for Brandon—Souris.

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Mr. Larry Maguire (Brandon—Souris, CPC)

Dec/7/23 1:14:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is a correction. We said there was no drought in Manitoba. There were small areas, but no drought in Manitoba—

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The Deputy Speaker

Dec/7/23 1:14:15 p.m.
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We are getting into debate. The hon. member can ask a question of the parliamentary secretary as soon as his speech is done. The hon. member for St. Catharines.

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Secretary

Mr. Chris Bittle

Dec/7/23 1:14:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is suggesting that I am not telling the truth, but all we hear is them axing the facts, which is truly unfortunate. The Conservatives are not even going to say that there are drought conditions across the Prairies, which is fact. Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Chris Bittle: Mr. Speaker, they are chirping. They are upset. They are angry, but the fact remains that this country has seen extreme weather time and time again, and that is what is impacting the price of food. One of the previous members brought up a study warning Canadians that the price of food is going to increase. However, the member did not mention the second part, which was that climate change is the main driver of that. What do they do? They want to get rid of one of the most cost-effective ways to reduce pollution. It is a system that works and puts more money back into the pockets of Canadians. Again, I call on the Conservatives to bring up some facts that support their arguments. Give us a better way to fight pollution. However, they are not going to. The only thing they have are slogans. I would like to see some facts. I would like to see a better way to fight pollution if they have it, but they do not. One Conservative member in committee said that environmentalists bring up all sorts of things, such as acid rain, but it went away. Do members know why it went away? It is because a price on pollution was brought in. An hon. member: Science. Mr. Chris Bittle: Mr. Speaker, the hon. laughed again and said “Science”, but a price on pollution was brought in to limit pollution. It was brought in by a Conservative government under Brian Mulroney, by the way, who was a leader on that front. I hope that the Conservatives return back to even 2021, when they were talking about a price on pollution and climate change. Climate change is real. We need to act. It is unfortunate that the Conservatives will laugh and deny it.

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Mr. Ted Falk (Provencher, CPC)

Dec/7/23 1:16:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest and humour to the member for St. Catharines, because he is certainly a good fabricator. What he needs to do is get his facts straight. Before he surmises that there was a drought in Manitoba, he should do his fact-checking instead of hypothecating about what he would have liked to happen. There was no drought in Manitoba. The farmers in my region were experiencing bumper crops. I do not know what the member was talking about. Why does the member want to increase the price of home heating? Why does he want to increase the price of food for first nations and families right across the country? Why does he want to do that to my residents of Provencher? Why does he want to make life more expensive for Canadian families?

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The Deputy Speaker

Dec/7/23 1:17:29 p.m.
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I want to caution the hon. members when we are talking about fabrication, making stuff up or using the word that I kicked someone out of the House for yesterday. Let us be careful when we are taking on these things. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Dec/7/23 1:17:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, grain yields are down. Maybe they are doing great in the hon. member's riding, but he does not cite any facts. He cites his slogans, and that is unfortunate because Manitobans are impacted by the effects of climate change, which is driving up the price of food. That is the main driver of the price of food. No one on the other side mentions that the price of food here is growing at the same price as it is in the United States, which does not have a price on pollution. Climate change is what is driving it. I do not know why the Conservatives are denying it or why they are sticking their heads in the sand. The hon. member ran on a price on pollution. Why is he denying it right now?

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

Dec/7/23 1:18:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Governor of the Bank of Canada cited that the carbon tax is causing about a 0.15% impact on inflation. This was confirmed by the PBO. That is 15¢ on a bag of groceries that is $100. The Conservatives are getting away with this runaway train of a disinformation campaign that the carbon tax is the major factor when it comes to grocery store prices. We know it is corporate greed, because the big grocery stores are recording record profits. The reason the Conservatives are able to get away with convincing Canadians to buy into this campaign is that the government has failed to go after the CEOs of the big grocery stores. There is no difference, really, when it comes to Liberals and Conservatives being gatekeepers for the rich and well connected. Will the Liberals finally go after the big grocery store chains and take real, meaningful action so that it shows up at the till when people are trying to buy their groceries?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Dec/7/23 1:19:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the support of the NDP on the budget. The thing I want to focus on is the cancellation of the price on pollution. It would disproportionately hurt the most vulnerable in our communities. As I mentioned in my speech, 94% of those making less than $50,000 a year get more back from a price on pollution. It is the Conservative Party that would disproportionately impact those hurting and struggling the most in our country.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Dec/7/23 1:20:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we hear a lot about the Conservative leader saying “axe the tax”. I think there is a comeback slogan to that. It is called “axe the facts”. Before he pre-empts his speeches with this in the future, I am wondering if we should emphasize the fact that, when it comes to the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, he will “axe the facts” and then get into the bafflegab of “axe the tax” on the price on pollution. I would like the member's comments on “axe the facts”.

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Dec/7/23 1:20:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. member wholeheartedly. The only thing the party on the other side has is slogans. They have no experts who back them up. They have no respected economists or environmentalists who will stand up and say theirs is a reasonable plan or that they have reasonable ideas. They laugh when we talk about climate change. They laugh when we talk about it having an effect on their constituents. They have no plan for the environment. They have no plan for climate change. They are reckless. They are dangerous. This is the most serious thing facing Canadians as we move forward, and the only thing they brought to the debate is laughter.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (Yorkton—Melville, CPC)

Dec/7/23 1:21:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member talks about facts. Is he willing to stand in this House and say that based on Canada's proportion of greenhouse gases in comparison to the United States, China, India and many other countries in this world, our weather systems in Canada are due to our responsibilities in the global climate change scenario?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Dec/7/23 1:21:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this shows how unserious that party is. If every country that had lower emissions than China and the United States said they did not have a responsibility on climate change, there would be no action on it. Countries like Ukraine have stepped up, and they have very small carbon footprints. What did the Conservative Party do? It voted against Ukraine. The price on pollution is important and we need to move forward on it. It works and it puts more money back into the pockets of Canadians.

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Mr. Larry Maguire (Brandon—Souris, CPC)

Dec/7/23 1:22:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to share my time today with my colleague from Elgin—Middlesex—London. Our Conservative motion to axe the carbon tax, as we have heard so much from the Liberal government about today, is an opportunity for all members of Parliament, even those in the Liberal backbenches, including the my colleague from Winnipeg North, to stand up for their constituents. I know it will take courage, but I urge every one of them to do the right thing. Like all MPs in this House, I am getting emails and calls from moms and dads across Canada who are struggling to pay their bills and put food on their tables. I am hearing from seniors who worked decades to save for retirement, only to see inflation eradicate their income and financial security. As someone who represents a large rural constituency, I know how the carbon tax disproportionately impacts the people who call Westman home. If we can pass this motion, it will send a strong signal to the Prime Minister that his government needs to get serious about the cost of living crisis in Canada. If the Liberals have not yet figured it out, the Conservative team will never back down from its mission to axe the carbon tax once and for all, no matter how long it takes. We will stand up for the families, seniors, farmers and indigenous Canadians who are being crushed by the drastic cost of living. Nothing was more insulting to the millions of Canadians trying to heat their homes this winter than when the Prime Minister decided to temporarily pause his carbon tax on only 3% of households. It is no wonder that provincial governments are up in arms. Even the NDP government in Manitoba is explicitly asking the Prime Minister to exempt home heating from his carbon tax. As for the top-up for rural Canadians, it is not even enough money to pay for the gas to take their kids to hockey practice on the weekend. Our common-sense Conservative motion today is simple. It is not a gimmick and there are no temporary measures. It is time to axe the inflationary carbon tax for good and bring home lower prices. Every single member of Parliament knows constituents are hurting. It does not matter if people live in rural Newfoundland or North Bay, Ontario, inflation and rising Liberal taxes are taking their toll. People are struggling to stay afloat, and the carbon tax is a giant anvil dragging them down. We found out this week, as an example, that more than 50,000 Manitobans are now regularly using a food bank, the highest number ever recorded in the province, and while we can get bogged down in statistics, we must never forget that we are talking about people. These are seniors, students, children and indigenous Canadians who cannot afford to go the grocery store. When people do have money in their pockets, they are decreasing the quantity and sometimes the quality of the food they are buying. This is not normal and it weighs heavily on the minds of moms and dads trying to pack their kids’ school lunch boxes. It weighs heavily on the senior whose fixed income is not keeping up with the rate of inflation. It weighs heavily on the young person who is trying desperately to pay for their education or save for a home but can barely afford their daily necessities. I know first-hand the challenges food banks are having. I have visited the Samaritan House in Brandon and it is struggling to keep up with demand. I cannot say enough about the good work that Barbara McNish and all the volunteers do for those in need, but we as policy-makers cannot just turn a blind eye to these startling numbers. As another example, I know the food bank in Killarney, Manitoba, is facing challenges. It recently contacted my office, as it now needs to hire a manager to run the operation as the demand on volunteers is too great. Under the Liberal government, small rural communities need to hire a manager to run a food bank. In all my years of living in Westman, I never thought in a million years that a very progressive community like Killarney would ever need to hire staff to run its food bank. It is a testament to the struggles that many are facing and it is undeniably heartbreaking. If this is not a warning sign of how bad things have gotten out there, I do not know what is. What will it take to finally wake the Prime Minister up and get him to change direction? The rising costs of food cannot be divorced from the Liberal government's tax-and-spend policies. The carbon tax is driving up the cost of everything. It is contributing to the costs of growing our food. Let this sink in for a moment. While the cost of groceries has never been higher, Liberals have shown no compassion for those who cannot afford to put food on the table. The carbon tax is being applied all along the entire food supply system. It gets passed down until every Canadian gets stuck with the bill. It is no wonder the Parliamentary Budget Officer said that families are seeing a net loss under this measure. Families and seniors are getting crushed, and it is time for action. They are tired of Liberal gaslighting about how much better off they are under the carbon tax rebate scheme. The good people of Westman are not falling for the Liberals' talking points; at the end of the day, they do not have more money in their wallets. Just this morning, Canada's Food Price Report stated that the average family of four is expected to spend $16,297.20 on food in 2024. As we have heard my colleagues say in this House before, that is seven hundred and some dollars more than what they had to spend last year. I want to finish my talk today by just saying that this is an outlandish tax that the government is trying to place on everyone in Canada and their cost of living today. The government could have passed Bill C-234, which was a bill to take the carbon tax off heating barns and greenhouses in Canada and drying grain. The cost of food is directly proportional to the cost of the inputs that it takes to grow these products. We are talking about greenhouse produce that is extremely healthy and is exported all over the world, particularly to our neighbours in the United States to the south of us. Maybe some of my colleagues are not aware of what really happens when farmers are drying grain. It is not just a luxury; it is an absolute necessity, because farmers need to be able to store that crop when they take it off. If they do not, that grain could spoil, costing the producers millions of dollars across the country. It could be billions. This is something that is very much a necessity.

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Carbon

Mr. Denis Trudel

Dec/7/23 1:30:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I simply want to say that the interpreter is indicating for the third time that there is a telephone vibrating next to the microphone and that it is a problem.

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