Senator Lankin: Thank you, Senator McCallum. I’m not going to speak about the substance of the bill. I believe you’re really asking me about the process.

Yes, that is a key job for the Senate. In fact, it is a mandated approach suggested and ruled on by the Supreme Court of Canada in their 2014 decision, without a doubt. I also believe it is the job of the elected politicians in the House of Commons. I also believe it is the job of all people in all orders of government. I don’t think we are the only place, but I sometimes think we are the last place. We are certainly, with a constitutional point of view, responsible — it’s the Supreme Court point of view — for ensuring constitutionality and compliance with the Charter, for representing the voices of minority groups — in particular, Indigenous peoples — regional voices and technical drafting voices.

(1550)

Do we have enough time to do all that well and often? No. I’m going to move, again, from the systemic to the situational.

I am a feminist. I am a woman. Many of you know from previous remarks that I am a survivor of sexual assault. I want this law to be right, and I want everybody’s point of view to inform it. What will happen now is a stopgap over the summer until this is examined in a different way. I believe that is better than nothing, but I do not at all dismiss the importance that we all place on ensuring that we hear those voices.

We will hear them in a novel way, which will be after this provision but with the opportunity to amend it. Thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker: If you are opposed to the motion, please say “no.”

Some Hon. Senators: No.

Hon. Mobina S. B. Jaffer: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak to Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (self-induced extreme intoxication).

Senators, I have to say to you that I am very concerned with the process we have followed on Bill C-28. This is such an important issue in criminal law. But I also understand that because of the big gap that we currently have in the criminal law as a result of the recent Supreme Court decisions in R. v. Brown and R. v. Sullivan, I understand we have to act quickly and I accept that.

Senator Gold, I have one request of you: If the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee will study Bill C-28 — which I have no doubt we will — and provide recommendations to the Senate and Minister of Justice, the Minister of Justice will take our recommendations seriously and respond to us in the time we have set aside. Hopefully, if there are any recommendations, we will implement them.

Honourable senators, I had a much longer speech prepared, but out of respect for my colleagues and everyone who was able to speak, I will raise a few issues that I seriously think need to be looked at. Perhaps the committee will not agree with me.

I asked the minister, as well; we do not know what negligence looks like for extreme intoxication. Senators Cotter, Simons and I asked this question of Minister Lametti when he was here. I must admit that I did not find his answer satisfactory.

For example, what do we do with young adults and teenagers who might not know their tolerance? Would we exonerate all of them under the defence of extreme intoxication because they could not be negligent? Must the accused know their own limits to be negligent?

Second, we do not know whether the burden to prove negligence for extreme intoxication is appropriate.

If Bill C-28 passes, the Crown will need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was negligence on the part of the defendant. However, as Senator Boisvenu pointed out, it most likely will lead to a battle between expert witnesses. How will a jury or even a judge answer these incredibly hard questions?

Third, we do not know if we should or should not add a presumption in Bill C-28 that alcohol alone cannot cause extreme intoxication. As such, we are applying a defence which has now lost its context.

Senators, there are many questions that the committee will look at, I’m sure, but what will it take before the courts to prove negligence in reaching a state of extreme self-induced intoxication? How will the prosecutor be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused was negligent in not objectively foreseeing that his consumption would lead to extreme intoxication and to harm? Especially for young adults who do not know their limits, how will negligence be applied?

Senators, I have heard so much this evening and throughout the debate that we must fill the gap. Women’s groups want this. First of all, I respectfully say to you that women’s groups are not a homogenous group. Some women’s groups want it. It is not a homogenous group.

(2110)

Secondly, as a young lawyer, I tried to convince my client that if the judge found the accused liable, she would be protected. Four years later, he returned home and killed her. So to just say that we are protecting the vulnerable and women is not enough. By acting so fast, we will build a false idea within vulnerable groups that there is protection.

There is never protection if the resources are not there to protect the women. Thank you, honourable senators.

Senator Tannas: Actually, I conveniently left that out of my speech because I was cutting it down for time, but you’re right. The credit for the road map goes to Senator Saint-Germain and working with you.

This is what has to be done at the end of a period of time. We have to find ways to wrap things up; otherwise, we never will. We’ll spin our wheels, and we won’t accomplish what could be accomplished and we won’t prioritize properly. I thought it was a masterful job. I supported it 100%.

In relation to the programming motion, I agree that we need to come up with a different word. But the fact is that the motion we put forward had two components. One was that it was unfair, and it was unadvisable to ask a growing number of senators who were uncomfortable with sitting quietly and granting leave. It made more sense to put the decision in the hands of every senator collectively, not individually, to determine whether this was a suitable way forward, and we’ve done that.

So a programming motion was not what we did. We did a motion to ratify, importantly, a decision of the leaders that needed the input of all senators in order to have permission to move forward. Thank you.

[Translation]

Senator McCallum: How do the officials look after the minorities — the people whose votes don’t matter because there are not enough of them? They’re not a majority. Is it not the Senate that has to look after the minorities, the vulnerable and Indigenous peoples? How will they be looked after with this bill?

Thank you.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

Senator Gold: I have no knowledge of what the government would do with regard to that. The short answer is that the court responded expeditiously with this legislation, which it believes, and I believe, satisfactorily fixes the broken sink or toilet or whatever architectural image I used. I have no reason to think that they will not proceed with trying to improve the law if those are the recommendations that come out of our study or the study in the other place.

Senator Gold: We’re the masters of our own house. Senate committees deserve the reputation they have for doing serious work. It’s important, first, that the committee take the job seriously, as I know it will, and define the scope of it. It’s up to the committee to decide how broadly or narrowly it wants to look at it.

As Senator Lankin pointed out, the way this was structured — and it was thanks to the input from senators to modify this — it gives the opportunity for our committee to start its work but not to have to finish its work until it has the opportunity to review what others may have said. Different opinions may emerge. There may be points of contact. Who knows?

But our work can only be enhanced, I think, with not only the knowledge and input of witnesses, but also the information and conclusions that the other place arrives at.

But it would be up to the chair, the steering committee and the committee as a whole to decide how to proceed.

Hon. René Cormier: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate. Senator Gold, on December 1, 2020, I moved a motion in this chamber that was adopted that very day. It called on the Government of Canada to increase the total funding for the Federal Initiative to Address HIV/AIDS to $100 million annually. The fact of the matter is that this funding is yet to materialize, or so reports a consortium of community and human rights advocacy organizations, including the HIV Legal Network and the Canadian AIDS Society. Unfortunately, in the meantime we have seen an increase in cases of HIV infection in Canada over the past few years.

Senator Gold, on the eve of the International AIDS Conference, which is being held in Montreal at the end of July, Canada being the host country this year, will the Canadian government finally commit to increasing the funding for the fight against HIV/AIDS to $100 million a year and when will it do so?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question, senator. The Government of Canada is proud that Canada is hosting the 24th International AIDS Conference, which, as you mentioned, is being held in Montreal from July 29 to August 2, 2022. The government remains firmly committed to end the AIDS endemic by 2030 and to support Canadians living with this disease. I am told that the government is investing $87 million annually to fight HIV and other sexually transmitted and blood-borne infections. The government is also providing $30 million to the Harm Reduction Fund to help prevent and control HIV and hepatitis C. The government continues to work closely with community groups and people with lived experience.

Senator Cormier: Thank you for your response, Senator Gold. Many organizations are calling on the Canadian government to increase its contribution to the Global Fund, which finances initiatives to fight HIV, tuberculosis and malaria around the world. Will Canada use its leadership as host of the International AIDS Conference to increase its contribution to this important fund, especially considering that AIDS is so prevalent in the world and continues to wreak havoc?

Senator Gold: Thank you for your supplementary question. I would like to point out that Canada has supported the Global Fund since its inception and, in fact, is its sixth largest donor. The government remains committed to supporting initiatives to fight HIV. The government also continues to assess numerous investments, and I would be pleased to contact the minister regarding Canada’s investment in this fund.

Senator Saint-Germain: Thank you for the question.

First, I want to reframe your assertion that a majority of legal advisers and groups would be very concerned about the inability of the Crown prosecutor to act in a way that would be efficient, and that there is too much burden on their shoulders. I disagree with that, and I could certainly turn to, including in this chamber, legal people who will see or tell you the opposite.

But my main concern is that if we are not responsible in acting now in order to fix this gap in the law, the perpetrators will not be convicted. That is a very serious issue with a very serious impact. So my view is that the best way to protect the victims in the short term is to act now and to vote for this bill.

Furthermore, the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee’s mandate is not only with regard to this bill; it is with regard to the broader question of the criminal justice system — intoxication, the extreme intoxication and what could be done. What could be done is not only in the judicial field, the courts and the law; it’s the whole system of consistent and complementary measures that would provide for the victims to be better protected and for there to be more prevention. Unfortunately, further to their victimization, there would need to be more healing and services — notably, social, psychological and medical services — available and timely to help them heal.

That is my view.

Once again, for now, what we have to discuss is this bill. Will it fix an issue that is timely? My answer is yes.

Senator Gold: I will make inquiries and try to report back. I will use my best efforts to encourage that this process — an important process, as you properly underlined — be commenced.

Hon. Judith G. Seidman: Honourable senators, my question is for the government leader. Bill C-45, the Cannabis Act, received Royal Assent on June 21, 2018, and came into force on October 17, 2018.

The act requires that, three years after coming into force, the Minister of Health conduct a review on the administration and operation of this act and its impact on public health.

In particular, the review must assess the health and consumption habits of young persons in respect of cannabis use, the impact of cannabis on Indigenous persons and communities and the impact of cultivation of cannabis plants in a dwelling house.

Senator Gold, eight months have passed since the three-year anniversary of the Cannabis Act and the minister has not yet initiated this review. When can we expect this important legislative review to begin?

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question.

Different governments provide and conclude different policy instruments to address it. President Biden’s decision reflects the unique circumstances in which he finds himself in. His party finds itself in a unique situation in the United States.

The Government of Canada is doing many things to help Canadians weather the cost of living, as it did many things to help Canadians in an economic sense get through the pandemic, and it will continue to do so. It will continue to evaluate the levers and policy options that it has, but, as I said, at the moment a decision has not been taken to reduce or temporarily suspend the federal gas tax.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Leader, the Trudeau cabinet currently has a public safety minister who misled Parliament on multiple occasions over why he invoked the Emergencies Act. They have a Service Canada minister giving Canadians seeking a passport some of the worst service imaginable. There’s a foreign minister who blames her official attending a party at a Russian embassy on a missed email, a transport minister who blames passengers for the long lineups at our airports and an immigration minister presiding over a backlog of 2.4 million applicants, which must be a record, leader. This is all just in the last few weeks.

Leader, is anyone in the Trudeau cabinet competent at their job? If so, who?

Senator Plett: I have a feeling that would be a pretty short list, and it wouldn’t take you very long. Well, it might, because you might not be able to think of any.

Leader, the Trudeau cabinet currently also has a finance minister who offers nothing new to Canadians in dealing with record inflation and who thinks she has done enough, a Minister of Agriculture who charges Canadian farmers a 35% tariff on fertilizer — which hurts them, not Putin — a heritage minister who forces his bill, Bill C-11, through the House in a completely undemocratic process, a House leader who wants hybrid Parliament to remain long after most Canadians have returned to work — in fact, they just passed it again today. To top it all off, we have a divisive, out-of-touch Prime Minister who thinks nothing of interfering with an active police investigation of a mass murder to advance his own political agenda.

Canadians deserve much better than this, leader; don’t you agree?