SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 336 - Sep/16/24

Sep/16/24 7:02:42 p.m.
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I just want to remind folks that we want to have a natural conversation, but we do want to have folks stick to the times assigned to us. I want to make sure that we keep the questions and comments as quick and exact as we possibly can.

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs (Cybersecurity), Lib.)

Sep/16/24 7:03:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Winnipeg North. I would like to thank the member for Nunavut for bringing forward this motion today to convene this emergency debate on the state of policing in our country and what we as parliamentarians can do to combat systemic racism that exists in so many of our institutions, including policing. Six indigenous people have been killed across Canada in interactions with police since late August. Their names are Jack Charles Piche, Hoss Lightning, Tammy Bateman, Jason West, Danny Knife and Steven “Iggy” Dedam. This loss is unimaginable, and I would like to extend my sincere sympathies to the families, friends and communities that have lost someone they love. There is no doubt that indigenous people experience systemic racism and disproportionate outcomes within the criminal justice system, including police. In fact, an indigenous person in Canada is more than 10 times more likely to be shot and killed by a police officer. Indigenous people are 56% more likely to be victims of crime than others, and in 2016, indigenous people represented 25% of the national male, and 35% of the national female, prison population. That has been and continues to be our national shame. Discrimination on the basis of race or as a result of any other form of bias is unacceptable and abhorrent. In the motion from the member for Nunavut, she calls on all of us as parliamentarians to show leadership and take responsibility to keep our institutions accountable. She rightly points out that people across Canada must know that their parliament is addressing the institutional violence in their communities as a critical and immediate priority. I agree with her, and tonight I hope to be part of a debate where members from every corner of the country come together with their suggestions on what we can and must do to address the violence that our institutions perpetuate upon our citizens. However, regardless of what ideas or solutions are presented here tonight, the fundamental truth of why we are having this debate will not change: over the course of 11 days, six first nations people have been killed by police. That truth rightfully will make a lot of Canadians angry, and I am angry. Now, we must ask ourselves what we can do to address immediate measures to save indigenous lives today. The Government of Canada remains committed to working collaboratively with first nations in provinces and territories to ensure that first nations police services are supported with equitable and sustainable funding. The calls for justice from the national inquiry point toward the need for urgent reform to policing for indigenous communities. In budget 2021, we announced $861 million over five years, beginning in 2021-22, and $145 million ongoing to support culturally responsive policing and community safety services in indigenous communities. These funds will stabilize and enhance the first nations and Inuit policing program by investing in self-administered policing services and provide an enhanced level of policing to more communities. We are also stabilizing and enhancing the first nations and Inuit policing program by enhancing RCMP policing services funded through this program. These investments were further strengthened in budget 2024. The Minister of Public Safety was clear at the July 2024 AFN assembly that he is committed to co-developing legislation that ensures that first nations police services have equitable and sustainable federal funding. The minister's mandate to co-develop the legislation includes that provincial policing legislation would continue to apply to first nations police services. This ensures that these police services have clear operational standards while providing the necessary funding. In addition to our investments in indigenous policing, budget 2021 announced up to $64.4 million over five years and $18.1 million ongoing to enhance indigenous-led crime prevention strategies and community safety services, including through the aboriginal community safety planning initiative and expanded funding through the northern and indigenous crime prevention fund. The ACSPI supports indigenous community healing through a facilitated, community-driven process that works to address multiple safety and wellness issues. The community safety planning process fosters collaboration with government, provincial and territorial partners, local municipal governments and services and industry partners to address issues in the safety plans. The ACSPI has supported close to 60 communities in defining their safety concerns and finding solutions to respond to root causes and current aggravating factors. In addition to the work that the government has and will continue to do to co-develop legislation, we have also introduced legislation that looks to provide redress for individuals who have been subjected to unfair treatment by either the RCMP or the CBSA. Bill C-20 is an important and urgent piece of legislation because it would contribute to the government's efforts toward reconciliation with indigenous people. It has the potential to increase the trust and confidence of indigenous people in our law enforcement agencies. We have all heard stories of incidents that some, especially indigenous people, experience at the hands of the RCMP and CBSA, incidents that range from allegations of inappropriate or disrespectful comments to the use of excessive force, even including sexual misconduct. This is especially true for indigenous people, for whom the experiences with these agencies have been historically traumatizing. While the situation has evolved and improved over the years, there remain significant challenges, but Bill C-20 was an important step forward and must be adopted. It would contribute to rebuilding trust between our law enforcement agencies and the people they serve, especially indigenous people, and increase the ability of Parliament to hold the minister to account for the way the RCMP and CBSA serve those populations. It would also support the government's commitment to build a renewed nation-to-nation relationship with indigenous peoples based on the recognition of rights, respect and partnership. It would do so by ensuring there is a robust, independent review body in place to which members of the public can turn should they have complaints about their experience with the RCMP or the CBSA. It would also ensure that the new commission, the PCRC, is composed of members who represent the diversity of the people they would serve, including indigenous people. At the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security we heard from various witnesses during its study of Bill C-20, and there is a lack of data around law enforcement activities, which makes it difficult to identify and respond to systemic issues. In particular, the committee heard from Mr. Natan Obed, president of the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami. Mr. Obed highlighted the need to not only have a robust review body in place to hold enforcement accountable, but also “to be able to inform this body of how to improve policing and broader outcomes for our communities”. This is exactly what was envisioned in Bill C-20. The information would be particularly useful to help us understand and respond to systemic issues in law enforcement activities. Findings of the commission would also support learning and training for the members of our valued law enforcement agencies. One more feature included in the bill that might have passed under the radar but which I believe is important to mention in the context of reconciliation with indigenous peoples is the recognition within the bill of an indigenous complaint resolution mechanism. Indeed, the bill would provide for PCRC to respond annually on the number of complaints from individuals detained by the CBSA that have been resolved through the reconciliation process with indigenous peoples. Bill C-20 would include transformative provisions that would have the ability to improve the way our law enforcement agencies work, especially with indigenous and other vulnerable communities. This is just one example of additional work that we are doing to improve law enforcement agencies' interactions with indigenous people. Again, I would like to thank the member for Nunavut for her work in convening this important debate here tonight.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Sep/16/24 7:13:03 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I am going to honour the families of the victims who were just killed. I ask that we make sure that we honour the memories of Jack Piche, Hoss Lightning-Saddleback, Tammy Bateman, Jason West, Daniel Knife and Steven “Iggy” Dedam. What will the member advise her party to say to the families of these victims, whose lives were lost, who are in grief? What will this party say to the families of these people?

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell

Sep/16/24 7:13:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I said in my remarks, the loss of lives of these members of communities, friends and family is truly tragic. Canada must do better. We, as a government, are committed to doing better. We want to work with members on all sides of the House to do so, to find meaningful solutions and to move forward to end the systemic racism that we have experienced in this country and that indigenous people continue to experience. We are deeply committed to moving forward, so that tragedies like this do not continue to happen.

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé (Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, BQ)

Sep/16/24 7:14:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by thanking my fellow member from Nunavut for this very important debate. We are constantly hearing about violence in indigenous communities, yet we never act until some tragic event occurs. Tonight I would like to say that in my riding of Abitibi—Baie‑James—Nunavik—Eeyou in northern Quebec, and even in Lac‑Simon and Kitcisakik, there is a lot of violence. People have even been killed in the last few years. Earlier, we mentioned the disappearance of Sindy Ruperthouse in Pikogan, near Val‑d'Or, in Abitibi. The violence against women led the government to launch the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. The federal government considered that it had made progress, but CBC/Radio-Canada reported that in 2023, four years after the inquiry was tabled, only two recommendations had been implemented and fewer than half were under way. I would like to know what the government is waiting for. I know that it is not easy and it requires a huge effort, but they need to show some respect and mutual understanding.

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell

Sep/16/24 7:16:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this work is incredibly important and, frankly, crucial. However, as the member opposite has stated, it is complex. It is complex in the sense that it is not for the federal government to implement what it feels is best. This is a nation-to-nation partnership, and we must walk together. It is incredibly important to note that indigenous communities across this country will have different needs and that our government must address each and every one of those needs where communities are at. We are deeply committed to doing so. We have made significant progress. However, until all of these issues are resolved, it is work that must continue to happen.

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Ms. Raquel Dancho (Kildonan—St. Paul, CPC)

Sep/16/24 7:16:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for her remarks, as well as for her remarks in response to another member's questions. She mentioned that progress has been made. Unfortunately, we are seeing that in first nations and Inuit communities, the fact is that crime has gone up significantly in the last number of years. Perhaps she could specify where the progress is being made, specifically in the lives of indigenous people in terms of crime, violence against women and others. The member did go on at length in her remarks about program funding. While I do appreciate the government announcing that funding, a recent Auditor General report gave a quite scathing analysis of what follows after big announcements of big amounts of money. In fact, the Auditor General found that, in essence, the Liberal government was not following where the money went. It was not following if there were any good outcomes. It could not even provide a list of community agreements with first nations communities that had signed on. In particular, I am talking about the first nations and Inuit policing program. The report is quite extensive. While I do appreciate that announcing funding is part of the process of governance, also part of the process of governance is ensuring there is follow-through. In this case we are talking about nearly $1 billion of funding over the last number of years. I would like to hear where this progress is being made, and why it is that the Liberal government was not really tracking or following through on nearly $1 billion of program funding in this regard.

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell

Sep/16/24 7:18:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is incredibly ironic that members of the Conservative Party often criticize the spending and funding of indigenous-led programming, then actually criticize, saying we are not doing enough, and then vote against providing funding that actually goes to help these communities. It is also interesting to note that Conservatives vote, time and time again, against providing funding and support. Instead of recommending programs that could also help, Conservative members talk about waste in these programs or say that these programs are not being delivered. I have met with several communities where progress is being made. There is, of course, more to be done. However, let us not forget the fact that the Conservatives did not even want to look into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, which is shameful. We must all work together to produce better outcomes for indigenous people in this country. It is shameful when Conservatives continually vote against that work.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 7:19:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I very much appreciate the opportunity to add a few thoughts and concerns on what I know is such an important issue. I have had the opportunity to address the chamber in regard to issues of a similar nature for a good number of years, and one of the conclusions that I have drawn and I believe most, if not all, members would share is the importance of having indigenous people provide and continue to lead the public discussion and debate on this very important issue. I reflect on another time there was a minority government, when we saw the Kelowna accord, through Paul Martin. The Kelowna accord was an attempt by first nations with the Government of Canada to really make significant changes in a wide spectrum of ways. I say that only because I recognize how critically important it is, when we talk about indigenous issues, that we recognize the importance of the nation-to-nation dialogue that public policy needs to be led by. We all have personal opinions, and members know that I have a lot of opinions. I always enjoy sharing my opinions on a wide spectrum of issues, and this is one of them. However, one of the things I have found to be so fruitful for the community that I represent is an organization called the Bear Clan Patrol. I have a deep amount of respect for what the Bear Clan Patrol has been able to accomplish over the years. In good part, it is about reconciliation. It is what the government can do to advance the issue of reconciliation. From my perspective, when I look at law enforcement agencies, non-profit, indigenous law enforcement agencies, RCMP, provincial, municipal, however one wants to put it, paid or unpaid, there has to be some form of reconciliation brought into it. In fact, if we take a look at the RCMP as a model, one only needs to visit its website to gain a lot of insight in terms of what it is doing in regard to the issue of reconciliation. There are things such as working in partnership with indigenous policing services that are provided, working co-operatively, allowing and respecting the jurisdictions and getting a better appreciation of the culture and the heritage, which is so very important. When I think in terms of the Bear Clan Patrol, I think about a wonderful group of individuals of all different backgrounds. It is indigenous-driven but opened up to the broader community. I think of how they have influenced and changed the behaviour of the north end of Winnipeg in a very real and tangible way, not only for the residents who live in the immediate community by building a more positive, healthy relationship with law enforcement, but also through advocacy. I have had a couple of opportunities over the years to walk with the Bear Clan Patrol, but more importantly, I know that other elected officials of different political stripes, from different levels of government, have all been engaged. There is a great deal of advocacy that takes place. In terms of law enforcement officers, it even goes beyond the city of Winnipeg and, in fact, Canada. We get others from outside of Canada, not to mention throughout Canada or from different areas of Canada, coming to see what has made the Bear Clan Patrol as popular as it is. In good part, it is community relations working with law enforcement agencies and law enforcement agencies working with the Bear Clan Patrol. Members say that they would like to be able to contribute to the debate today in terms of ideas and thoughts. The most important message that I would leave is to look at the importance of reconciliation, in which all of us have a role to play, and start looking at ways in which we can see tangible results. Whether it is the different levels of government, non-profit groups or others, we have seen some significant progress in this area. Is it going fast enough? We heard citations of individuals and victims. My heart, prayers and thoughts are with the families and friends and the community because we do need to do better. We need to be challenging and to ensure that there is a higher sense of accountability. Our national law enforcement agency, the RCMP, has acknowledged that there is systemic racism within its ranks, and it is taking action on it in different ways. We know that it exists, that it is real and that it is having a tangible negative impact. The question is this: What do we do? We look for examples throughout the country with, in particular, not only law enforcement agencies but also others. Look for good practices and, where there is a good practice, see how we might be able to enhance or, more importantly, duplicate it. An example of that would be back in 2019-20, when there was the first ever report from the RCMP on the issue of the RCMP and movement toward reconciliation. In Saskatchewan, the RCMP is looking at a capital investment where it is fixing up considerably and putting in a museum. There was a presentation that I witnessed, and I can say that what is very much on their minds is the issue of reconciliation and what it is they need to do, as Canada's premier law enforcement agency, to ensure that we are moving forward on the issue. We do need to see those strategies developed and dealt with. We do need to ensure that there are priorities and support. There are areas in which, no doubt, the federal government can contribute more, and I am open to that, as I know the government is. However, I want to emphasize that we need to see those policy ideas and directives being spearheaded from first nations, Métis people and Inuit communities, which were here well before any of us. They have the ideas, and in certain areas, governments do need to step up to the plate more. We are a government that is prepared to do what we can, where we can, as the Prime Minister himself has clearly indicated, nation to nation. This is something we have strived to do since first taking the reins of power back in 2015. By looking at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action and the recommendations that came out of the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, we will continue to move forward where we can, but we will look for ideas on how we might make sure that others are moving in the same direction.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Sep/16/24 7:29:50 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I would like to thank the member for using words like “tangible” and for talking about things we need to see happening to help address some of the issues. As I mentioned in my speech, I had done an intervention with the UCCM Anishnaabe Police in northern Ontario because the federal government was not meeting its obligations to ensure that this first nations policing agency was getting the core funding it needed or making sure it had the resources to deal with special teams. Does the member agree that a tangible solution is to make sure that if the RCMP is getting core funding to do its law enforcement, then the core funding should also be available to first nations law enforcement and Inuit law enforcement so that they are able to do it with the same resources they should be able to deliver on, which they have not been able to because the federal government was not negotiating in good faith with the law enforcement in northern Ontario? As well, does he agree that a tangible solution is to make sure those first nations policing authorities get the same core funding so that they can help protect their first nations and Inuit communities?

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Sep/16/24 7:31:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I was being somewhat careful about some things I talked about. One thing I did not talk about was the number of budgetary lines I could easily cite going into the hundreds of millions of dollars toward supporting the types of things I have been talking about. However, rather than talking about and expanding on those points, I thought it was more important to recognize that there are some good things taking place in Canada today that are indigenous-led, non-indigenous actions and things that are really making a positive difference. Governments of different levels should be looking at those success stories and ways in which the House of Commons can expand and complement them. Has the federal government given enough federal dollars? I know that we have provided a great deal and that there is a great deal of negotiations and discussions taking place. I do not know the finer details, but I do know that we are probably looking at record amounts of money today in comparison to what it was 10 years ago.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Sep/16/24 7:32:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this is an important debate we are holding on the day the chair of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women has tabled our report, the fruit of the committee's work, to implement the red dress alert. The report contains a total of 17 recommendations. Obviously, tonight's debate is not only about missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. Young men are also disappearing. This is therefore a broader conversation, but it is still related to the report and there are still 17 recommendations. Could we draw inspiration from it? Recommendation 9 talks about improving the relationship between indigenous communities and the police. We are talking about improving police forces' understanding of indigenous realities. One concrete measure presented is to provide support to victims to help them rebuild trust in the justice system and facilitate reporting. How can we ensure that we use this important report and that it does not just end up on the shelf? Can it be considered in the context of this evening's debate?

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Sep/16/24 7:34:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Tina Fontaine story is one I would commend all members to become familiar with. I found it to be inspirational, personally. It is the story of very young girl who went missing. She was murdered and was then found in the river. A lot of the issues surrounding the types of things we are talking about today and on many other days are found in this story, and we can learn from that particular story. The reason I brought up the Bear Clan Patrol is that this is a group of individuals who, over the years, has really moved the ball forward by encouraging law enforcement agencies, not just in Winnipeg but all over the place, quite frankly, to be more sensitive and to better understand the issue of reconciliation, among other things.

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Ms. Raquel Dancho (Kildonan—St. Paul, CPC)

Sep/16/24 7:35:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am honoured to be back in the chamber. I have been on a sort of pseudo-maternity leave, working in my community for the last year, approximately. It is really an honour to be back amongst all the colleagues and to be debating very important issues, as we are this evening. I would like to thank the member for Nunavut for bringing this important issue forward. I thank her very sincerely for that. On the comment made by one of her NDP colleagues that perhaps, a number of years ago, this would not have been something that a Speaker would have approved for debate, I think that we are making progress. In the last number of decades, in particular the last number of years, we are seeing progress in debating the issues that matter to all Canadians, and notably First Nations, Inuit and Métis Canadians. Hopefully, we will see more of that important debate in the chamber. The issue at hand, of course, as already discussed, is that six first nations individuals had their lives cut short in the last number of weeks, in fact, in only 11 days, with interactions with police. It is absolutely devastating to read those kinds of headlines. I cannot imagine what it would be like for the families right now, families in those communities, headline after headline of lives being cut short by these interactions, notably between folks and police in our communities who we want people to trust and to feel safe calling. It is a very serious matter, and I am glad to see that the House is taking it very seriously. I am not from a first nations community. I am from a rural farming community in Manitoba. I had a two-parent household, a stable income and a safe community. I was quite sheltered and privileged in many ways, growing up in a safe little bubble with a lot of income security, like many Canadians in suburban Canada and in rural Canada. Unfortunately, though, as I grew up and learned a bit more about the world outside of my small little bubble, l learned that not everybody has the opportunities that I had. Not everybody comes from middle-class neighbourhood and not everybody comes from a two-parent household. There are a lot of families that experience parents with addictions or who have been incarcerated, or those who have experienced domestic violence or sexual assault at a very young age in many cases. Unfortunately, out of all the crime stats in the country, those who are victimized are massively over-represented in first nations communities, in Inuit communities and in the Métis community as well. I think that as a legislator, although I do not represent any first nations, I have endeavoured to educate myself and to take opportunities to learn more about what the day-to-day life is like in many of these communities, facing extreme poverty, unemployment, addictions and violence. We have seen the victimization of many people and the serious consequences that women, and especially children, are facing in this regard. When we read headlines like this, day after day, about first nations people's lives cut short by those whom, as a community and as a country, we are supposed to trust, I can understand the fear, frustration and anger that many in that community are facing right now. I would like to extend my sincere apologies to them, as a member of Parliament, as a person of privilege. What they are going through must be horrific, and I cannot imagine what that is like. My heart goes out to them. Frankly, aside from those six cases, there have been dozens and dozens, if not hundreds, over the years, particularly in the last 150 years, of mistreatment by various government officials, policing officials, of people from first nations, Inuit and Métis communities. It was not okay then; it is not okay today. I think in my lifetime, certainly, we have made a lot of progress. I will give an example from when I was in high school. It was not too long ago, but it is getting up in years of how long ago that was. There was not really a curriculum established at all. Although Manitoba has very large first nations, Métis and Inuit communities, particularly first nations and Métis, as well as Inuit a little more up north, there was not a curriculum really established to my knowledge, or at least to my exposure, of learning about that history, particularly from an indigenous perspective, so it was fairly limited. However, I did have an excellent English teacher who wanted to share what other people outside of our little small-town bubble experienced. In fact, the very first time I heard that life could be very different and that people might be treated very differently by law enforcement or others based on their background, their race or their culture, it was, in fact, about Helen Betty Osborne. She was a young woman in the 1970s, up in The Pas, Manitoba, who was murdered. Her case, if I can paraphrase it, was not taken seriously at all by police. It was significantly bungled, to say the very least. It was concluded in many ways that it was because she was an indigenous woman. It was not taken seriously. Procedures were not followed. Even just basic procedures in the 1970s, which we have improved at large since then, were not adequately followed, and she was not given the dignity that other people may have been given, who were not indigenous and who may have been found as she was. She had been stripped naked, and she had been stabbed dozens of times with a screwdriver. I believe there was a sexual assault element that was found there. I just remember, as a 14- or 15-year-old, it really made an impression on me. Following that, I endeavoured to take indigenous studies courses in my undergrad degree, both at McGill and, in particular, at the University of Manitoba, which has the largest native studies program in the country. It was quite enlightening to learn about and to have the opportunity to go to school to have those resources to learn more about this. I am very thankful for that. I got my start in politics 10 years ago this October. Just as I was getting started, and I think it was honestly within the first week or two, 14-year-old Tina Fontaine, an indigenous child, was found wrapped in, I believe, a blanket or a mattress of some kind and tossed in the Red River, which runs straight through Winnipeg. Unfortunately, she is not the only indigenous woman who has been found in the river. In fact, there are organizations that dredge the river just to see if they can find any of their missing women. I had just started in provincial politics. I was a political staffer. That was my introduction to politics in Manitoba, this horrific case of a young woman who had gone through the system and had a lot of challenges presented in her life. Again, she was 14, a complete child, barely having experienced anything in life, and she was just so horrifically treated at the end, with no dignity provided to her. That also had a very strong impression on me at the time, in my introduction to politics, as well as the importance of good public policy and following through when announcements are made and things like that. I did want to mention that as well. A few months after that, a very lengthy report came out about Phoenix Sinclair, who, in the early 2000s, was killed. She was a five-year-old girl in a first nations community. She was murdered by, unfortunately, her mother and her mother's partner at the time. She was abused, malnourished, mistreated and kept in the basement on a cold floor. The partner had shot her with a BB gun. There was just such a horrific timeline of failures of the institutions, for example, child and family services, that were supposed to follow her case, protect this child and ensure that her case was closely followed, whether she was in a community family, her own family or a foster family. Social workers were tasked with that, and procedures were not followed. They were neglected. In fact, the family was able to hide that their daughter had died and had been thrown in a landfill for quite some time before child and family services found out. It has been mentioned in the House during this debate already, but would a child of a different race have been treated that way? Was it just treated in the sense that it was another case? Was it almost neglectful, not respectful, not dignified? She was the most beautiful little girl, if we look at pictures of her. I am a new mom, so talking about children is a bit challenging. Those things had a real impact on me as well. I am sorry to talk all about myself, but I did want to establish that I cannot possibly understand the challenges that many first nations, children in particular, and women and others, go through, seeing headlines where their family members are not coming home because of interactions with people that we are all supposed to be able to trust. I have had some impactful experiences and exposure to some of these things and have done my best to pursue learning more about them and what can be done about them. Beyond the stories, we know that the facts are very cold and frightening, particularly for indigenous women and indigenous children, as I mentioned. Indigenous people are disproportionately the victims of violence in this country. For example: ...approximately 4 in 10 Indigenous people...were sexually or physically assaulted by an adult before the age of 15, and nearly two-thirds...experienced at least one sexual or physical assault after the age of 15.... For the period of 2015 to 2020, the rate of homicides involving an Indigenous victim...was six times higher than the rate of homicides involving non-Indigenous victims.... Almost six in 10 indigenous women have experienced physical assault, while almost half, 46%, of indigenous women have experienced sexual assault. Indigenous women make up approximately 16% of all female homicide victims and 11% of missing women, yet indigenous people as a whole only make up 4.3% of the population. Regardless of which party we are and what time we have been in government, throughout the 150 years, there have obviously been failures of public policy at an extraordinary degree. Various governments have tried to bring forward policies to help, but I do very much feel that governments still approach any partnership with indigenous people very paternalistically rather than what was originally supposed to be in treaty. Under a number of agreements over the past centuries, it was supposed to be an equal partnership at the table. That has never been borne out. We still see governments across the country, at all levels, have a paternalistic approach, telling them what they will impose on them to help all of their problems, rather than, as has already been discussed in this debate, an indigenous-led or, at the very least, an equal partnership at the table of how these issues can be solved. I want to see in my lifetime the next generation of indigenous children thrive and grow up safely. I want to see the stats completely change, but I do not have that lived experience, so how am I supposed to know how to design a program to help fix this problem? I need to ensure that there is equal representation at the table and that indigenous leadership is primary. I appreciate much of the debate so far. I think there has been some quite good ideas put forward, but overall, crime in this country is on the rise. We know that very well. We have talked about that at length as well. We are seeing gun crime up nearly 100%. In Winnipeg alone, gun crime is up 177%. I believe that was the stat I read this morning in question period. When we see any of these crime stats, and they are getting really bad over the last nine years under the current Liberal government, and unfortunately the NDP has supported many of the policies that we believe have contributed to these crime increases, they are horrific. They impact real people in Toronto, Winnipeg and Calgary. However, often when we look at those numbers, what we are not extrapolating is that they are even worse in first nations and northern and remote communities where policing is minimal and where first nations policing is very underfunded. I would like to talk a bit about first nations policing. I think that there is some good stuff that we could do there. I do not have first-hand experience of indigenous policing, but I have spent time with the Bear Clan, which is, I believe, a matriarch-led, established, grassroots community group in Winnipeg. As soon as I got elected, I was able to go door-knocking with them on a -35°C January evening in Winnipeg. It is indigenous-led and indigenous-established. Its members walk through the community and pick up dangerous drug paraphernalia in parks and other places to help protect the kids, but they also hand out scarves and food. The community trusts them, so they ask them for help, ask them for assistance. It is a trusting, respectful and dignified relationship. I think that is really the answer. When there is a community that establishes what it is working for, what it is leading it and what it wants to see, that is when government can come in and ask how it can stabilize some of its funding. It is not somebody thousands of miles away, in all respect to our public servants in Ottawa, saying what the government is going to do for what Winnipeg needs with respect to funding, along with the bureaucrats, the checklists and the barriers it is going to have to fulfill, and that it is going to need to hire five people just to do the accounting. Rather, it is organisations such as the Bear Clan, which grew up from the grassroots. That is when I think government needs to come in and fund. Therefore, from the limited perspective that I have, I believe that, if first nations policing, from what I have seen in Winnipeg, follows that same model where it is indigenous community-led and is implementing culturally respectful practices that would support the community, that should be where government is. That is where government should support, not with an Ottawa-implemented approach from thousands of miles away, where we could not possibly understand the challenges. There are even the challenges of just getting adequate food and water, for example, and it is unbelievable to say in Canada in 2024 that some people cannot just turn on the tap and drink the water. However, I am getting a bit off track. I want to say as well that, in addition to the benefits of my limited knowledge from what I have heard about indigenous policing, it sounds like it could be really great. I know that there have been efforts over the last 20 years to start putting that in. I will get into some of the failures of the Liberal government in that regard. In fact, I will talk about them now in case I do not get to them. I want to get them on the record. Here are just a few numbers. The Auditor General report just came out in the last little while, and it found some pretty disappointing, we will call them, at best, results for much of the Liberal funding for first nations and Inuit policing programs. Just to give some ballpark numbers for this one program, from 2018 to 2023, there was $930 million spent on first nations and Inuit policing. I do not know if that is enough. I do not know if that is too much. I would have to read more of the information. It might not be nearly enough. From what we have heard, it does not sound like it is, or it may be enough, but how it is being implemented, as I mentioned before, is part of the problem. In the report, the Auditor General was quite scathing of the government's deliverables on this. Again, there is an announcement that sounds great, yet unfortunately, like so many of its programs, it announces big amounts of money, but like this one, cannot get the money out the door. The Liberals just do not know how to spend it, but it sounds like a great number when they announce it, and that it is going to make a real difference. However, the Auditor General “found that Public Safety Canada did not know whether the First Nations and Inuit Policing Program was achieving most of its key expected results.” Again, this is almost a billion dollars spent in the last number of years by the current Liberal government. The report also “found that the gathering and analyzing of program data were so limited that Public Safety Canada”, under Liberal leadership, “did not have an accurate listing of the signed community...agreements.” The parliamentary secretary for Public Safety was here, but she has since left. My apologies, I cannot mention that, and I retract it. She gave a robust response that mentioned all the funding, but we are seeing in black and white from the Auditor General of Canada, a non-partisan person charged with holding governments accountable for their program spending, that basically the government has not been following the money. It does not know if the program is successful. It cannot get the money out the door, and it does not even know the agreements that it has signed with first nations communities. While I appreciate the parliamentary secretary's remarks, it is frustrating to hear the Liberals list ad nauseam all of these things, yet in black and white, there seems to be no accountability beyond announcing the funding. As we have established, these are very critical issues in this country. People have died. As I mentioned, in a number of the statistics, women are disproportionately impacted and children are disproportionately impacted. I do believe that it is a failure to announce this money and raise people's hopes and expectations, because voters do care about these issues, yet fail to deliver. It has been nine years of this government now. Crime is through the roof in almost every single measure, and it is worse in first nations communities, to say nothing of the drug issues under the Liberals' failed drug policies. They are saying, “Well, we are announcing all this money though. We are doing so great.” However, when in a debate like this tonight in the chamber, apparently they are not. Apparently there is a lot of work to do. If we are going to have indigenous people lead the way on reserves, then some of this money has to be followed. At least the government has to know who it has agreements with. I was pretty shocked to read that one in particular. I feel like I am ranting a bit, but it does get me going a little to hear people in ivory towers talk about everything they are doing, yet on the ground we are not seeing that delivered, and they are promising it over and over again. In fact, in 2020, the Liberal government promised to bring forward legislation to declare first nations and Inuit police services an essential service. Years go by, but nothing happens. In 2022, the former minister of public safety said that he would “work around the clock” to table legislation by the end of 2022. It is 2024, and there is no legislation. I do take issue with the announcements and the patting on the back when there is no follow through, when the Liberals are not even keeping track if their deliverables are being achieved, yet they are claiming success. I do have a real problem with that. I was hoping to talk a bit more about crime at large and what, in particular, a number of first nations communities in Saskatchewan and others are calling for. I think there is some really good stuff in there, and I hope to get the opportunity in the question and comment portion of this debate to discuss what first nations people would like to see happen.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Sep/16/24 7:54:25 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to start out by welcoming back my colleague who has returned from mat leave. She is a fellow Winnipegger, and I thank her for some really thoughtful remarks. One of the things that really struck me was her focus on indigenous-led solutions. We need to listen to the indigenous community. I agree with her. If we are going to talk about reconciliation, then we need to actually listen to what justice means to the people who have been affected by oppression and, certainly in Canada, colonization. In Winnipeg, the indigenous community, along with indigenous organizations and many other organizations, has opened the first safe consumption site in response to the overdose crisis. We have an overdose crisis in Winnipeg. The province of Manitoba, under the leadership of the indigenous community, has now opened a safe consumption site with wraparound mental health supports and other supports. I would ask my colleague if she will stay true to her statement. She feels that the only path forward is to support the indigenous community. If that is so, is she going to support the indigenous community of Winnipeg that has opened its first safe consumption site in my riding?

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Ms. Raquel Dancho

Sep/16/24 7:56:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the kind opening remarks by my colleague from Winnipeg Centre. There is a lot I could say on this. The member and I have actually had side chats about it, because it is an important issue to solve or, at the bare minimum, make some progress on. It is desperately needed in Winnipeg on drug issues and the drug deaths we are seeing at an increasingly alarming rate, particularly in the last 10 years. I have told the member that I do have serious concerns about what I do not feel are safe injection sites, the crime that is happening around them and the vile drug dealers who take advantage of the people who feel they need to use these facilities. We are seeing those issues increase as these sites are opening. People go to where the vulnerable are to prey on them. I have an example that really hit home. This happened just last spring. I am sure many in the House will remember Karolina Huebner-Makurat, who was in her 40s and a young mom of two young children. She was walking down the street in a suburban Toronto area, and she was shot to death during a drug deal gone wrong. The drug dealers had been preying on folks in one of the safe injection sites in that community. We are seeing this over and over again, and I could not, in good conscience, support something that led to this woman's death. I wish I could talk more about this. I have a lot to say. However, we on the Conservative side support something like Bruce Oake Recovery Centre, which takes the treatment option and really focuses on a holistic approach to—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Sep/16/24 7:57:44 p.m.
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We have to leave time for more questions. The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

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Hon. Robert Oliphant (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 7:57:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to follow up on the previous question. The question was not a question of morality. It was a question of health, but it was also a question about listening to indigenous communities and letting them set their agenda and taking the lead from them. It was about “nothing about us without us”. Is the member willing to state that we need to follow indigenous communities and indigenous leaders to work together in the spirit of what would have been the Kelowna accord, which was smashed by the previous Conservative government?

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Ms. Raquel Dancho

Sep/16/24 7:58:27 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for the question, and I will get to the member's specific question, but on the Bruce Oake Recovery Centre, there are primarily indigenous people coming out of the Stony Mountain penitentiary, for example, who are eagerly waiting to get into the Bruce Oake Recovery Centre. There is a list, 300 people long, of primarily indigenous men. They are not eagerly waiting to go to a safe consumption site. The facility just broke ground on a women's wing that it will be building, but it is for men at this time, and it is primarily indigenous men. In fact, the 16-week program is so good that the men do not want to leave. It has an incredible success rate. That is where we should be investing our tax dollars. There are proven success stories. There are incredible success stories there. That is where we believe the funding needs to be allocated: on recovery and treatment. We are seeing great success in places like Alberta that have been doing this for quite some time. On indigenous-led solutions, there are a number of first nations that are saying there are no drugs allowed on their first nations. They are banning drugs. They are putting up stops to stop the drug dealers so that these people cannot come in. Imagine what those first nations people would say if folks like the Liberal government and others said they were going to open up a safe consumption site or have a so-called safe supply on those first nation reserves and paternalistically put that solution onto them. First nations, and I could list a number of them if I had more time, are saying no to drugs.

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé (Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, BQ)

Sep/16/24 8:00:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as we well know, drugs, abuse, violence and disappearances are a reality in indigenous communities. There are a lot of problems at the moment. We need to work with indigenous communities. Clearly, there are many acts that cause trauma. If the member were in government, would there be special investigations? I will give an example. Val-d'Or has a joint police force that works with indigenous communities. If the member were in government, what measures might her government take?

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