44th Parl. 1st Sess.
September 16, 2024 11:00AM
- Sep/16/24 7:34:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Tina Fontaine story is one I would commend all members to become familiar with. I found it to be inspirational, personally. It is the story of very young girl who went missing. She was murdered and was then found in the river. A lot of the issues surrounding the types of things we are talking about today and on many other days are found in this story, and we can learn from that particular story. The reason I brought up the Bear Clan Patrol is that this is a group of individuals who, over the years, has really moved the ball forward by encouraging law enforcement agencies, not just in Winnipeg but all over the place, quite frankly, to be more sensitive and to better understand the issue of reconciliation, among other things.
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- Sep/16/24 7:35:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am honoured to be back in the chamber. I have been on a sort of pseudo-maternity leave, working in my community for the last year, approximately. It is really an honour to be back amongst all the colleagues and to be debating very important issues, as we are this evening.
I would like to thank the member for Nunavut for bringing this important issue forward. I thank her very sincerely for that. On the comment made by one of her NDP colleagues that perhaps, a number of years ago, this would not have been something that a Speaker would have approved for debate, I think that we are making progress.
In the last number of decades, in particular the last number of years, we are seeing progress in debating the issues that matter to all Canadians, and notably First Nations, Inuit and Métis Canadians. Hopefully, we will see more of that important debate in the chamber.
The issue at hand, of course, as already discussed, is that six first nations individuals had their lives cut short in the last number of weeks, in fact, in only 11 days, with interactions with police. It is absolutely devastating to read those kinds of headlines. I cannot imagine what it would be like for the families right now, families in those communities, headline after headline of lives being cut short by these interactions, notably between folks and police in our communities who we want people to trust and to feel safe calling. It is a very serious matter, and I am glad to see that the House is taking it very seriously.
I am not from a first nations community. I am from a rural farming community in Manitoba. I had a two-parent household, a stable income and a safe community. I was quite sheltered and privileged in many ways, growing up in a safe little bubble with a lot of income security, like many Canadians in suburban Canada and in rural Canada. Unfortunately, though, as I grew up and learned a bit more about the world outside of my small little bubble, l learned that not everybody has the opportunities that I had. Not everybody comes from middle-class neighbourhood and not everybody comes from a two-parent household. There are a lot of families that experience parents with addictions or who have been incarcerated, or those who have experienced domestic violence or sexual assault at a very young age in many cases. Unfortunately, out of all the crime stats in the country, those who are victimized are massively over-represented in first nations communities, in Inuit communities and in the Métis community as well.
I think that as a legislator, although I do not represent any first nations, I have endeavoured to educate myself and to take opportunities to learn more about what the day-to-day life is like in many of these communities, facing extreme poverty, unemployment, addictions and violence. We have seen the victimization of many people and the serious consequences that women, and especially children, are facing in this regard.
When we read headlines like this, day after day, about first nations people's lives cut short by those whom, as a community and as a country, we are supposed to trust, I can understand the fear, frustration and anger that many in that community are facing right now. I would like to extend my sincere apologies to them, as a member of Parliament, as a person of privilege. What they are going through must be horrific, and I cannot imagine what that is like. My heart goes out to them.
Frankly, aside from those six cases, there have been dozens and dozens, if not hundreds, over the years, particularly in the last 150 years, of mistreatment by various government officials, policing officials, of people from first nations, Inuit and Métis communities. It was not okay then; it is not okay today.
I think in my lifetime, certainly, we have made a lot of progress. I will give an example from when I was in high school. It was not too long ago, but it is getting up in years of how long ago that was. There was not really a curriculum established at all. Although Manitoba has very large first nations, Métis and Inuit communities, particularly first nations and Métis, as well as Inuit a little more up north, there was not a curriculum really established to my knowledge, or at least to my exposure, of learning about that history, particularly from an indigenous perspective, so it was fairly limited. However, I did have an excellent English teacher who wanted to share what other people outside of our little small-town bubble experienced.
In fact, the very first time I heard that life could be very different and that people might be treated very differently by law enforcement or others based on their background, their race or their culture, it was, in fact, about Helen Betty Osborne. She was a young woman in the 1970s, up in The Pas, Manitoba, who was murdered. Her case, if I can paraphrase it, was not taken seriously at all by police. It was significantly bungled, to say the very least. It was concluded in many ways that it was because she was an indigenous woman. It was not taken seriously. Procedures were not followed. Even just basic procedures in the 1970s, which we have improved at large since then, were not adequately followed, and she was not given the dignity that other people may have been given, who were not indigenous and who may have been found as she was. She had been stripped naked, and she had been stabbed dozens of times with a screwdriver. I believe there was a sexual assault element that was found there.
I just remember, as a 14- or 15-year-old, it really made an impression on me. Following that, I endeavoured to take indigenous studies courses in my undergrad degree, both at McGill and, in particular, at the University of Manitoba, which has the largest native studies program in the country. It was quite enlightening to learn about and to have the opportunity to go to school to have those resources to learn more about this. I am very thankful for that.
I got my start in politics 10 years ago this October. Just as I was getting started, and I think it was honestly within the first week or two, 14-year-old Tina Fontaine, an indigenous child, was found wrapped in, I believe, a blanket or a mattress of some kind and tossed in the Red River, which runs straight through Winnipeg. Unfortunately, she is not the only indigenous woman who has been found in the river. In fact, there are organizations that dredge the river just to see if they can find any of their missing women.
I had just started in provincial politics. I was a political staffer. That was my introduction to politics in Manitoba, this horrific case of a young woman who had gone through the system and had a lot of challenges presented in her life. Again, she was 14, a complete child, barely having experienced anything in life, and she was just so horrifically treated at the end, with no dignity provided to her. That also had a very strong impression on me at the time, in my introduction to politics, as well as the importance of good public policy and following through when announcements are made and things like that. I did want to mention that as well.
A few months after that, a very lengthy report came out about Phoenix Sinclair, who, in the early 2000s, was killed. She was a five-year-old girl in a first nations community. She was murdered by, unfortunately, her mother and her mother's partner at the time. She was abused, malnourished, mistreated and kept in the basement on a cold floor. The partner had shot her with a BB gun. There was just such a horrific timeline of failures of the institutions, for example, child and family services, that were supposed to follow her case, protect this child and ensure that her case was closely followed, whether she was in a community family, her own family or a foster family.
Social workers were tasked with that, and procedures were not followed. They were neglected. In fact, the family was able to hide that their daughter had died and had been thrown in a landfill for quite some time before child and family services found out. It has been mentioned in the House during this debate already, but would a child of a different race have been treated that way?
Was it just treated in the sense that it was another case? Was it almost neglectful, not respectful, not dignified? She was the most beautiful little girl, if we look at pictures of her. I am a new mom, so talking about children is a bit challenging. Those things had a real impact on me as well.
I am sorry to talk all about myself, but I did want to establish that I cannot possibly understand the challenges that many first nations, children in particular, and women and others, go through, seeing headlines where their family members are not coming home because of interactions with people that we are all supposed to be able to trust. I have had some impactful experiences and exposure to some of these things and have done my best to pursue learning more about them and what can be done about them.
Beyond the stories, we know that the facts are very cold and frightening, particularly for indigenous women and indigenous children, as I mentioned. Indigenous people are disproportionately the victims of violence in this country. For example:
...approximately 4 in 10 Indigenous people...were sexually or physically assaulted by an adult before the age of 15, and nearly two-thirds...experienced at least one sexual or physical assault after the age of 15.... For the period of 2015 to 2020, the rate of homicides involving an Indigenous victim...was six times higher than the rate of homicides involving non-Indigenous victims....
Almost six in 10 indigenous women have experienced physical assault, while almost half, 46%, of indigenous women have experienced sexual assault. Indigenous women make up approximately 16% of all female homicide victims and 11% of missing women, yet indigenous people as a whole only make up 4.3% of the population.
Regardless of which party we are and what time we have been in government, throughout the 150 years, there have obviously been failures of public policy at an extraordinary degree.
Various governments have tried to bring forward policies to help, but I do very much feel that governments still approach any partnership with indigenous people very paternalistically rather than what was originally supposed to be in treaty. Under a number of agreements over the past centuries, it was supposed to be an equal partnership at the table. That has never been borne out.
We still see governments across the country, at all levels, have a paternalistic approach, telling them what they will impose on them to help all of their problems, rather than, as has already been discussed in this debate, an indigenous-led or, at the very least, an equal partnership at the table of how these issues can be solved. I want to see in my lifetime the next generation of indigenous children thrive and grow up safely. I want to see the stats completely change, but I do not have that lived experience, so how am I supposed to know how to design a program to help fix this problem? I need to ensure that there is equal representation at the table and that indigenous leadership is primary.
I appreciate much of the debate so far. I think there has been some quite good ideas put forward, but overall, crime in this country is on the rise. We know that very well. We have talked about that at length as well. We are seeing gun crime up nearly 100%. In Winnipeg alone, gun crime is up 177%. I believe that was the stat I read this morning in question period. When we see any of these crime stats, and they are getting really bad over the last nine years under the current Liberal government, and unfortunately the NDP has supported many of the policies that we believe have contributed to these crime increases, they are horrific. They impact real people in Toronto, Winnipeg and Calgary. However, often when we look at those numbers, what we are not extrapolating is that they are even worse in first nations and northern and remote communities where policing is minimal and where first nations policing is very underfunded.
I would like to talk a bit about first nations policing. I think that there is some good stuff that we could do there. I do not have first-hand experience of indigenous policing, but I have spent time with the Bear Clan, which is, I believe, a matriarch-led, established, grassroots community group in Winnipeg. As soon as I got elected, I was able to go door-knocking with them on a -35°C January evening in Winnipeg. It is indigenous-led and indigenous-established. Its members walk through the community and pick up dangerous drug paraphernalia in parks and other places to help protect the kids, but they also hand out scarves and food. The community trusts them, so they ask them for help, ask them for assistance. It is a trusting, respectful and dignified relationship. I think that is really the answer.
When there is a community that establishes what it is working for, what it is leading it and what it wants to see, that is when government can come in and ask how it can stabilize some of its funding. It is not somebody thousands of miles away, in all respect to our public servants in Ottawa, saying what the government is going to do for what Winnipeg needs with respect to funding, along with the bureaucrats, the checklists and the barriers it is going to have to fulfill, and that it is going to need to hire five people just to do the accounting. Rather, it is organisations such as the Bear Clan, which grew up from the grassroots. That is when I think government needs to come in and fund.
Therefore, from the limited perspective that I have, I believe that, if first nations policing, from what I have seen in Winnipeg, follows that same model where it is indigenous community-led and is implementing culturally respectful practices that would support the community, that should be where government is. That is where government should support, not with an Ottawa-implemented approach from thousands of miles away, where we could not possibly understand the challenges. There are even the challenges of just getting adequate food and water, for example, and it is unbelievable to say in Canada in 2024 that some people cannot just turn on the tap and drink the water. However, I am getting a bit off track.
I want to say as well that, in addition to the benefits of my limited knowledge from what I have heard about indigenous policing, it sounds like it could be really great. I know that there have been efforts over the last 20 years to start putting that in. I will get into some of the failures of the Liberal government in that regard. In fact, I will talk about them now in case I do not get to them. I want to get them on the record.
Here are just a few numbers. The Auditor General report just came out in the last little while, and it found some pretty disappointing, we will call them, at best, results for much of the Liberal funding for first nations and Inuit policing programs. Just to give some ballpark numbers for this one program, from 2018 to 2023, there was $930 million spent on first nations and Inuit policing. I do not know if that is enough. I do not know if that is too much. I would have to read more of the information. It might not be nearly enough. From what we have heard, it does not sound like it is, or it may be enough, but how it is being implemented, as I mentioned before, is part of the problem.
In the report, the Auditor General was quite scathing of the government's deliverables on this. Again, there is an announcement that sounds great, yet unfortunately, like so many of its programs, it announces big amounts of money, but like this one, cannot get the money out the door. The Liberals just do not know how to spend it, but it sounds like a great number when they announce it, and that it is going to make a real difference. However, the Auditor General “found that Public Safety Canada did not know whether the First Nations and Inuit Policing Program was achieving most of its key expected results.” Again, this is almost a billion dollars spent in the last number of years by the current Liberal government. The report also “found that the gathering and analyzing of program data were so limited that Public Safety Canada”, under Liberal leadership, “did not have an accurate listing of the signed community...agreements.”
The parliamentary secretary for Public Safety was here, but she has since left. My apologies, I cannot mention that, and I retract it. She gave a robust response that mentioned all the funding, but we are seeing in black and white from the Auditor General of Canada, a non-partisan person charged with holding governments accountable for their program spending, that basically the government has not been following the money. It does not know if the program is successful. It cannot get the money out the door, and it does not even know the agreements that it has signed with first nations communities.
While I appreciate the parliamentary secretary's remarks, it is frustrating to hear the Liberals list ad nauseam all of these things, yet in black and white, there seems to be no accountability beyond announcing the funding. As we have established, these are very critical issues in this country. People have died. As I mentioned, in a number of the statistics, women are disproportionately impacted and children are disproportionately impacted. I do believe that it is a failure to announce this money and raise people's hopes and expectations, because voters do care about these issues, yet fail to deliver.
It has been nine years of this government now. Crime is through the roof in almost every single measure, and it is worse in first nations communities, to say nothing of the drug issues under the Liberals' failed drug policies. They are saying, “Well, we are announcing all this money though. We are doing so great.” However, when in a debate like this tonight in the chamber, apparently they are not. Apparently there is a lot of work to do. If we are going to have indigenous people lead the way on reserves, then some of this money has to be followed. At least the government has to know who it has agreements with. I was pretty shocked to read that one in particular.
I feel like I am ranting a bit, but it does get me going a little to hear people in ivory towers talk about everything they are doing, yet on the ground we are not seeing that delivered, and they are promising it over and over again. In fact, in 2020, the Liberal government promised to bring forward legislation to declare first nations and Inuit police services an essential service. Years go by, but nothing happens. In 2022, the former minister of public safety said that he would “work around the clock” to table legislation by the end of 2022. It is 2024, and there is no legislation. I do take issue with the announcements and the patting on the back when there is no follow through, when the Liberals are not even keeping track if their deliverables are being achieved, yet they are claiming success. I do have a real problem with that.
I was hoping to talk a bit more about crime at large and what, in particular, a number of first nations communities in Saskatchewan and others are calling for. I think there is some really good stuff in there, and I hope to get the opportunity in the question and comment portion of this debate to discuss what first nations people would like to see happen.
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- Sep/16/24 7:54:25 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to start out by welcoming back my colleague who has returned from mat leave. She is a fellow Winnipegger, and I thank her for some really thoughtful remarks.
One of the things that really struck me was her focus on indigenous-led solutions. We need to listen to the indigenous community. I agree with her. If we are going to talk about reconciliation, then we need to actually listen to what justice means to the people who have been affected by oppression and, certainly in Canada, colonization.
In Winnipeg, the indigenous community, along with indigenous organizations and many other organizations, has opened the first safe consumption site in response to the overdose crisis. We have an overdose crisis in Winnipeg. The province of Manitoba, under the leadership of the indigenous community, has now opened a safe consumption site with wraparound mental health supports and other supports.
I would ask my colleague if she will stay true to her statement. She feels that the only path forward is to support the indigenous community. If that is so, is she going to support the indigenous community of Winnipeg that has opened its first safe consumption site in my riding?
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- Sep/16/24 7:56:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the kind opening remarks by my colleague from Winnipeg Centre. There is a lot I could say on this. The member and I have actually had side chats about it, because it is an important issue to solve or, at the bare minimum, make some progress on. It is desperately needed in Winnipeg on drug issues and the drug deaths we are seeing at an increasingly alarming rate, particularly in the last 10 years.
I have told the member that I do have serious concerns about what I do not feel are safe injection sites, the crime that is happening around them and the vile drug dealers who take advantage of the people who feel they need to use these facilities. We are seeing those issues increase as these sites are opening. People go to where the vulnerable are to prey on them.
I have an example that really hit home. This happened just last spring. I am sure many in the House will remember Karolina Huebner-Makurat, who was in her 40s and a young mom of two young children. She was walking down the street in a suburban Toronto area, and she was shot to death during a drug deal gone wrong. The drug dealers had been preying on folks in one of the safe injection sites in that community.
We are seeing this over and over again, and I could not, in good conscience, support something that led to this woman's death.
I wish I could talk more about this. I have a lot to say. However, we on the Conservative side support something like Bruce Oake Recovery Centre, which takes the treatment option and really focuses on a holistic approach to—
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- Sep/16/24 7:57:44 p.m.
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We have to leave time for more questions.
The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
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- Sep/16/24 7:57:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to follow up on the previous question. The question was not a question of morality. It was a question of health, but it was also a question about listening to indigenous communities and letting them set their agenda and taking the lead from them. It was about “nothing about us without us”.
Is the member willing to state that we need to follow indigenous communities and indigenous leaders to work together in the spirit of what would have been the Kelowna accord, which was smashed by the previous Conservative government?
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- Sep/16/24 7:58:27 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for the question, and I will get to the member's specific question, but on the Bruce Oake Recovery Centre, there are primarily indigenous people coming out of the Stony Mountain penitentiary, for example, who are eagerly waiting to get into the Bruce Oake Recovery Centre. There is a list, 300 people long, of primarily indigenous men. They are not eagerly waiting to go to a safe consumption site.
The facility just broke ground on a women's wing that it will be building, but it is for men at this time, and it is primarily indigenous men. In fact, the 16-week program is so good that the men do not want to leave. It has an incredible success rate. That is where we should be investing our tax dollars. There are proven success stories. There are incredible success stories there. That is where we believe the funding needs to be allocated: on recovery and treatment. We are seeing great success in places like Alberta that have been doing this for quite some time.
On indigenous-led solutions, there are a number of first nations that are saying there are no drugs allowed on their first nations. They are banning drugs. They are putting up stops to stop the drug dealers so that these people cannot come in. Imagine what those first nations people would say if folks like the Liberal government and others said they were going to open up a safe consumption site or have a so-called safe supply on those first nation reserves and paternalistically put that solution onto them.
First nations, and I could list a number of them if I had more time, are saying no to drugs.
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- Sep/16/24 8:00:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as we well know, drugs, abuse, violence and disappearances are a reality in indigenous communities. There are a lot of problems at the moment. We need to work with indigenous communities. Clearly, there are many acts that cause trauma.
If the member were in government, would there be special investigations?
I will give an example. Val-d'Or has a joint police force that works with indigenous communities.
If the member were in government, what measures might her government take?
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- Sep/16/24 8:00:38 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do believe that partnership with indigenous people is important, and not all indigenous people agree. We cannot pretend that every first nations person is the same and that every first nations reserve is the same. Some need supports that are different from what others need, and not everyone agrees on all of the solutions.
However, I will say, for example, that the first nations in Saskatchewan under the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations, which is 74 first nations reserves in Saskatchewan, just last fall demanded that all members of the Parole Board—which, from my understanding, is primarily appointed by whatever government is in power, in this case the Liberals—should all be fired, because they are doing such a poor job and releasing violent criminals who are going back into these communities and terrorizing them.
I thought that was pretty impactful. It is not something we hear every day. It is not something that was picked up in mainstream news, except for one article in the National Post.
Where is the response from the Liberal government? There are 74 first nations in Saskatchewan demanding that it fire all members of its Liberal-appointed Parole Board for what they feel is endangering their community by being, frankly, soft on crime.
Those are my words; I will not put that on them, but in particular, they were saying that there was a monster-like murderer, and I will not say his name, who was let out on parole.
We can talk at length about this. We have had whole debates about how the government has let people out on parole and let people out on bail who have murdered, stabbed and raped at alarming rates. Every police force in the country is saying that the Liberals' approach is failing, yet what are they doing about it? They are just doubling down.
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- Sep/16/24 8:02:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I welcome my hon. colleague back to this chamber as another young mom in this place. It is so wonderful to see people being able to find that space of both having a family and doing this job, and doing it so well.
One of the pieces that the member alluded to in her speech was with regard to first nations communities that are sick and tired of the lack of support they are receiving as drugs come into their communities. We are talking about isolated, remote communities that are pleading with the government that is failing them. The Liberal drug policies have failed over and over again. In fact, just over a year ago, first nations in my riding of Fort McMurray—Cold Lake were part of the call for the government to change and basically calling for this to stop.
I am wondering if the member could comment on her thoughts regarding the drugs coming into some of these communities and how we could do better to support those communities.
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- Sep/16/24 8:03:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is great to have some young moms in Parliament. We are a severely under-represented demographic.
I am going to quote the words of a first nations chief. Her name is Karla Buffalo, the CEO of the Athabasca Tribal Council.
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- Sep/16/24 8:04:44 p.m.
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- Sep/16/24 8:04:44 p.m.
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Yes, she is a friend of the member, Madam Speaker.
She stated, “We're seeing a significant rise in violence and illegal activities by people coming from outside our region and preying upon those experiencing crisis who are desperate for some relief.” The article continued, “People are scared because drug dealers are shooting at each other, and they're doing it right in broad daylight when kids are around.”
Following this story, again last fall, another article stated, “In February, Northern Alberta's Mikisew Cree First Nation announced an all-out crackdown on drug dealing and production in the community, including authorizing the Wood Buffalo RCMP to conduct searches of any homes carrying 'reasonable and probable grounds of suspected illegal drug activity.'”
There has also been drug banishment or drug—
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- Sep/16/24 8:04:44 p.m.
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We are way over time.
Resuming debate, the hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue.
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- Sep/16/24 8:04:53 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are gathered here today to discuss a matter that goes straight to the heart of our collective conscience, a subject that can no longer be ignored: When will there be comprehensive policing reform in Canada?
Over the past 12 days, the following individuals have met with a cruel fate. The tragic events of the past few weeks are a painful reminder of the crisis affecting our indigenous communities. We must remember the names and stories of those who have lost their lives. Jack Charles Piche, a 31-year-old from Clearwater River Dene Nation in Saskatchewan, was struck by an RCMP vehicle on August 29. Hoss Lightning, a 15-year-old teen from Samson Cree Nation in Alberta, was shot and killed by the RCMP during a confrontation on August 30. Tammy Bateman, 39 years old, was hit by a police car in Winnipeg on September 3. Jason West, 57 years old, was shot and killed in a confrontation with police in Windsor, Ontario, on September 6. Danny Knife, a 31-year-old from Ahtahkakoop Cree Nation in Saskatchewan, was shot and killed by Shellbrook RCMP on September 8. Steven “Iggy” Dedam, from Elsipogtog First Nation in New Brunswick, was shot and killed by the RCMP on September 8 during a wellness check.
We understand the importance of today's debate. I thank my colleague from the NDP for her leadership and for bringing this issue before the House. The families of indigenous youth killed by police have expressed tremendous distress over the tragedies experienced by their loved ones, as reported in an APTN News article entitled, “Families of Indigenous killed by Canadian police want answers”. These recent deaths highlight not only the persistence of police violence, but also the glaring gaps in accountability and oversight mechanisms that must absolutely be addressed. There is one incident after another, and outrage is growing across the country.
The recent deaths of these six individuals during interactions with the RCMP have had a profound impact on their families and communities. The tragic incidents have prompted widespread concern and calls for justice. The terrible events we are hearing about illustrate the urgent need for police services to be provided to indigenous communities. The breach of trust between the federal police and these communities will be long lasting. These deaths are not just isolated incidents, but part of a broader pattern of violence and injustice. They underscore the urgent need to reframe our approach to interactions between police and indigenous communities. These events highlight persistent problems in police interactions and the need for improved oversight and accountability.
The families and communities are demanding answers and justice for their loved ones. They are raising not only the ongoing crisis of police violence against indigenous people, but also pressing concerns about the effectiveness and fairness of police accountability mechanisms. What took place during these incidents, namely a police vehicle being used in an inappropriate context, the apparent lack of precautions to protect a vulnerable person and the resulting lack of accountability, suggest a situation that could be described as police brutality. The manner in which police acted in this situation often reflects broader patterns than the unjust treatment of individuals from these groups. We could call it systemic discrimination. These incidents are tragic examples of how police brutality can manifest itself against the most vulnerable individuals in our society.
We have heard that there is going to be an inquiry into what happened in the provinces where the deaths were found to have occurred. As in many similar cases, the families of the victims and the communities affected often express a deep sense of injustice due to the lack of charges or convictions against the police officers involved. Another aspect of these incidents is the impunity and lack of accountability at times like these, as if the events were swept under the rug. These incidents raise important questions about the justification for this use of force. Were the standards of police conduct breached?
The data consistently show that indigenous people are disproportionately affected by police violence.
Recently, the members of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs questioned the Minister of Public Safety and the deputy ministers of that department, including those responsible for indigenous relations. I was one of those members. The purpose of these questions was obviously to improve the system, but it was also to recognize that creating indigenous police services is essential.
A 2020 analysis showed that between 2017 and 2020, indigenous people were ten times more likely to be beaten or killed by police than their white counterparts. Indigenous people represent only 5.1% of the Canadian population, but they account for 16.2% of the deaths in incidents involving the police. This disparity reflects the broader patterns of discrimination and systemic inequalities.
The Auditor General also expressed numerous reservations about the direction the RCMP is currently taking in its relations with first nations communities. The communities often find themselves at an impasse in their negotiations with the different levels of government and often have to take their case before the courts.
The current system of oversight and accountability for police action is deeply flawed. Reports indicate that only a small fraction of the deaths involving the police lead to charges or convictions. Between 2000 and 2017, less than 4% of those cases led to charges and even fewer of them to convictions. What is more, the oversight organizations themselves are often flawed. Many of them are made up of former police officers, which can lead to conflicts of interest and lack of impartiality. Even when indigenous liaison positions exist, they are often found to be lacking, and critics say that those positions do not fully address the systemic nature of the problems and do not fully represent indigenous communities.
The outcry in indigenous communities reflects a growing demand for real and substantial change. In order to address these issues, we must not only reform the oversight mechanisms, but also tackle the root causes of systemic injustice. Ensuring that indigenous voices are heard and respected in this process is crucial to move toward a fairer and more just society.
If we focus on these areas, then there is hope that we can begin to resolve the deep-rooted problems of police violence and oversight and work toward a future where all communities are treated with dignity and fairness.
As far as the calls for change are concerned, the families and the communities affected by these tragedies are calling for answers and substantial reforms. These calls for action for the creation of an oversight committee made up of indigenous individuals and for the appointment of indigenous investigators are appropriate responses to the concerns raised. These measures seek to guarantee that investigations into police violence are conducted with cultural sensitivity and a deep understanding of indigenous realities.
What is more, it is imperative to reduce police presence in vulnerable communities and to develop other solutions such as mental health support services, housing, and culturally adapted programs. These options offer solutions that are more humane and more respectful of the rights of individuals than coercive police methods.
I want to underscore the importance of declaring indigenous police services essential. We have repeatedly told the Minister of Public Safety to speed up implementation of these services. We know that if the calls to action in the report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls were implemented, they would have a lasting effect and there would be fewer incidents.
Many of the recommendations are still relevant and can still serve to save lives. Call to action 32 states, and I quote, “Initiate negotiations with the federal government and Indigenous authorities to agree on a budgetary envelope for upgrading Indigenous police force wages, infrastructure and equipment.”
That was not done, and the socio-cultural gap shows that the approaches taken by indigenous police forces differ from the techniques used by the RCMP. We agree that the RCMP's policing techniques are still seriously flawed and lead to human tragedy.
Call to action 35 states, and I quote, “Undertake negotiations with the federal government and Indigenous authorities to ensure recurring and sustainable funding for all Indigenous policing.”
That call for action has not been fulfilled either, and yet everyone agrees that no one is better placed to interact with indigenous communities than indigenous police. Many communities across the country are constantly fighting for predictable long-term funding in many critical areas, such as infrastructure and drinking water. Imagine the situation for police services.
This is definitely a problem in the Abitibi-Témiscamingue region. I want to acknowledge the leadership of indigenous communities, particularly Kebaowek, and the leadership shown by Minister Lafrenière, a former police officer, who has reached out and expressed support for the creation of a regional indigenous police service in Abitibi-Témiscamingue. I see that as part of the solution.
The Long Point community in Winneway lost its police service roughly 20 years ago. We can see that crime has also increased on the reserve. Now the Sûreté du Québec has to serve the area. I do believe that there are times when a peer-led response would facilitate peaceful solutions to difficult situations.
The outcry in indigenous communities is a legitimate and necessary response to a systemic injustice and to police violence. To make society more equitable and just, we must address these problems proactively. Proposed reforms must be implemented with diligence and determination. We must ensure that indigenous voices are heard and respected in a process of justice and reform. We must also recognize traditional indigenous knowledge and consider how restorative justice is traditionally used by indigenous communities. I think this is something that deserves more attention. By focusing on these areas, we can hopefully begin to resolve the deeply rooted problems and work toward a future where all communities are treated with dignity and equity.
Justice for Tammy Bateman, Jack Charles Piche, Hoss Lightning, Jason West, Danny Knife and Steven Dedam is essential not only for their families, but for society as a whole, because everyone deserves to live in a community where justice and respect for human dignity are the foundations of our co-existence.
The time has come to act with courage and compassion to ensure that these tragedies never happen again. We have a collective responsibility to reform our system, to ensure impartial investigations and to build a society where every life is precious and every voice is heard. In my opinion, a nationwide inquiry, modelled on the Viens commission, would have offered a glimpse into how the RCMP and other police forces operate in order to implement changes. These events are no different from the many other incidents reported over the past few years where indigenous chiefs were assaulted.
The time for commissions and reports is over. Now is the time for action. In the interest of dialogue with first nations, action is essential. We have to move on to action. I would also remind my colleagues on all sides of the House that a report issued by the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples identified flaws in Canada's justice system almost 30 years ago, back in 1992.
I am therefore calling on the government to move from words to action, based on what was done in Quebec, especially by the Viens commission. The Viens commission's report, published in 2019, shed light on years of systemic discrimination against indigenous groups.
In addition, the inquiry called for a public apology from the government for all the harm done over time. In October 2019, Premier François Legault officially apologized on behalf of the Government of Quebec for these serious violations. I would expect the same from the Prime Minister of Canada in a similar context. Commissioner Viens' final report included 142 recommendations for improving relations with and services for indigenous communities.
Key recommendations include the public apology that François Legault delivered in 2019 and the adoption of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Although it did not fully enshrine it into law, the Quebec National Assembly unanimously adopted a motion on October 8, 2019, recognizing the main principles of the declaration. I must say that the House of Commons has also taken a big step in that direction. However, we must also build on changes in organizational culture. Major public service networks must change their culture to better respond to the realities of first nations and Inuit communities.
Improving services is another important aspect. Services for indigenous people need to be improved and enhanced, especially in the areas of health, social services, youth protection and education.
These are basic services for which the federal government has a fundamental responsibility to provide stable, long-term funding.
More funding is also needed. The government needs to increase funding for indigenous services to ensure their quality and sustainability. Too often, “sustainability” is a keyword that is overlooked when it comes to relations with first nations. Budgets are set for just one or two years, and it is very difficult for indigenous communities to have predictability, particularly when it comes to fundamental issues like housing. The government provides funding so that a community can build one or two housing units, when we know these populations are experiencing a high level of growth. The indigenous population is growing much more quickly than that of cities and towns across Quebec and Canada. The government needs to pay attention to that and invest accordingly.
When we talk about crime and the impacts of violence, perhaps we need to first think about the issue of housing. If everyone had access to a place where they could live in dignity and fully relax, if everyone had a place of their own, a basic need that is at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy, then perhaps there would be fewer situations requiring police intervention, and perhaps we would see fewer tragic events like the ones that occurred recently.
The Viens commission also suggested raising public awareness of the realities and issues facing indigenous communities. I want to mention that the Bloc Québécois has always expressed concern about how slowly the recommendations of the two commissions, the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, or NIMMIWG, and the Viens commission, are being followed up. Urgent reforms have not been implemented and, as a result, incidents of police brutality are on the rise. As the events of the past two weeks show, this situation has impeded ongoing investigations into these incidents. All the same, we can still speak out against the brutal treatment that has been meted out. That, I think, is one objective of this evening's emergency debate.
Our goal is not to question the work of police officers in general, but I think it is worth giving it some thought. I think the goal is to maintain a higher level of confidence in our police systems, which is essential for any society to live in harmony. One way to do that is to recognize indigenous police forces as essential. I think urgent action is needed on this. It would be great if indigenous communities could develop their own justice systems, education systems and health care systems and if they could build housing with funding for projects “by and for” indigenous communities. It would be great if indigenous expertise, traditional knowledge and community leadership were recognized. If that were the case, I think there would be fewer tragedies.
One major factor this will involve is trust in a people's right to self-determination. This will go a long way towards preventing additional tragedies like the ones that have occurred over the past two weeks.
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- Sep/16/24 8:23:10 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, my colleague's intervention was very thoughtful. I agree with much of what he was sharing with us, and I wonder whether he could respond to something that AFN national chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak has suggested, which is that part of the law enforcement problem with RCMP officers is that they are neither being taught de-escalation techniques nor being given enough cultural competency training.
One of the other solutions that we need to discuss in the House is to make sure that RCMP officers are both taught de-escalation techniques and are given cultural competency training so they could better serve the people who need to be protected at the community level.
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- Sep/16/24 8:24:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Nunavut for her question and her leadership. I thank her for launching the debate this evening and I also thank her for constantly raising these issues at the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. Her sensitivity is important and that is reflected in the question she is asking us today.
I think we do indeed need to recognize the leadership of Grand Chief Woodhouse on an issue like this. We need to make our police forces more aware of indigenous realities. I would think training is a minimum requirement for preventing tragedies like the ones recently discussed from happening.
As I see it, education and training are also a collective responsibility. As parliamentarians, I think we could also use training to gain a better understanding of indigenous realities in our ridings and elsewhere in Quebec and Canada. I think we have that responsibility, especially through university courses. I want to commend the Université du Québec en Abitibi-Témiscamingue in particular for its leadership as one of the first universities in Canada to offer courses for raising awareness about indigenous realities in the region. All students, whether in nursing, social work or other programs, get access to this indigenous knowledge. This way, people can learn to live together in harmony and better understand each other's reality.
In my opinion, each and every one of us share this responsibility.
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- Sep/16/24 8:25:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I believe that we should be raising the bar and the expectations that we have as parliamentarians, and as Canadians as a whole, of our Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I believe that the RCMP, as a law enforcement agency, should be a leader in terms of reconciliation and in looking at ways of dealing with the very serious nature of the issue. That is why I was glad a few years ago that they tabled their first-ever reconciliation report. We have a training centre. I say now, because I believe it to be the case, and I would be disappointed if it is not, that there is a great deal of dialogue with the indigenous community on what is taking place in the training of RCMP.
I realize we should never assume, but I would like to think that the bar is high enough that this is a reasonable expectation. Would he not agree?
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- Sep/16/24 8:27:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Winnipeg North for his leadership. This morning I read a CBC article about which MPs are less active in the House. I actually found it interesting to see the opposite, or in other words, which MPs are the most active in the House and which ones contribute most to the debate. The article showed that my colleague contributes a lot in terms of quantity, but this evening he has also been contributing in terms of quality. Raising the bar for our police forces and those who ensure that we live together in harmony in our society is a critical solution.
I would like to share some thoughts with the House. At the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs, we heard from the Correctional Investigator of Canada. He conducted an investigation that generated statistics that prove that indigenous persons are overrepresented in the prison system. That means that we need to also take a look at our justice system. Why do judges paint the things that happen in indigenous communities with the same brush? The “by one's peers” aspect is being completely overlooked. When we look back in history a little, it is interesting to see that reports have been made every year, practically every decade, and they get shelved when they talk about indigenous issues.
A great friend of the family, Justice Jean-Charles Coutu, who was recently made an Officer of the Order of Canada, it should be noted, published the Coutu report in the 1980s and the Coutu proposal. I will name a few elements. The creation of a new indigenous justice would help revitalize Inuit practices, including the circle. We know that, in indigenous communities, being rejected by one's peers is often much more serious than justice itself. Being isolated in prison often leads to problems that make it very hard for people to become functional in the community again. Peers have a very significant impact. We need to reflect on that further. The diversion of certain elements would help communities reappropriate, little by little, some judicial powers, while distributing them among several representatives to achieve balance in the different communities. These elements—
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- Sep/16/24 8:29:25 p.m.
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I am sorry, but I have to give other members a chance to ask questions.
The hon. member for Rivière-du-Nord.
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