SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 336 - Sep/16/24

Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Sep/16/24 9:48:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by thanking my good colleague, the member for Nunavut, for requesting this emergency debate. I also want to give a shout-out to my good friend and colleague Kim Pate, on the Senate side, who has done tremendous work in this area as well. This is a topic, as we know, that is often neglected by politicians, and quite frankly the media normalizes systemic violence against indigenous people. Police brutality against people of colour, particularly indigenous people and Black people, BIPOC people, is nothing new in this country. However, recently the extent of police violence against indigenous people has grown to such a shocking level that it cannot be ignored by our leaders. Given that it is our duty to promote reconciliation, the federal government must end the ongoing legacy of settler violence that is being perpetrated through police brutality, and I want to give some examples of that. Between 2017 and 2020, an indigenous person in Canada was 10 times more likely to have been shot and killed by a police officer than a white person was. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association recently reported that while indigenous people make up 5.1% of people living in Canada, they represent 16.2% of people killed in police-involved deaths. There is no centralized, updated data set that exists that tracks deaths and provides information about the person, location, implicated police service, type of force used and many other contextual details. Much of what we rely on to understand these cases are “official documents” like police oversight body and media releases that contain limited details and tell only a one-sided police narrative, which is something that has often been cited and complained about by the public in Winnipeg with its current independent investigation unit. Researchers have also found that the use of lethal force by police was on the rise, especially since the start of the pandemic, between 2011 and 2022. Lethal force was 66.5% higher than in the previous decade, with indigenous and Black people being disproportionately impacted. I share this because it is nothing new. In fact in the last two weeks, we witnessed six cases of police brutality resulting in the deaths of indigenous people. This included cases of unnecessary force in response to people undergoing things like mental health crises; negligence resulting in the death of an unhoused person, like what I witnessed in Winnipeg; a photo of an unsheltered woman being removed by six patrol officers for sleeping on a bench in Winnipeg; and the lethal force used against a 15 year old. To me, it is unconscionable that our society is treating people made most vulnerable by systems with violence rather than uplifting them and treating them as human beings. I want to give my sympathies to the latest victims' families, and I want to say the victims' names. We must say their names, because they were human beings who were deserving of respect, dignity and human rights, something that was robbed from them and in turn hurt families and those who are left behind. They are Jack Piche, age 31; Hoss Lightning-Saddleback, age 15; Tammy Bateman, a woman in her 30s; Jason West, age 57; and Steven Dedam, age 33. However, as I said, this is not anything new. In fact, in April 2020, in the city of Winnipeg, three indigenous people were killed in a span of 10 days: Eishia Hudson, age 16; Stewart Kevin Andrews, age 22; and Jason Collins, age 36. In these cases, the Independent Investigation Unit of Manitoba laid no criminal charges. It is a unit that has been criticized by the hon. former senator Murray Sinclair. Today, just before coming to the debate, I spoke to the family of William Walter Ahmo, who was incarcerated in a provincial jail. The violence against indigenous people does not just happen on the streets with police; it also happens within our penitentiaries. On February 7, William Walter Ahmo had an emotional breakdown after a guard made a racist comment toward him. Racism is so normalized in our justice system that indigenous people such as the Wet'suwet'en have to listen to racist comments from the RCMP. The Winnipeg city police said it was up to indigenous people to search for their loved ones in a landfill. It was up to us. It could come from a current city councillor or the officer on guard in the prison making a racist comment to William, a young man struggling with mental health and dealing with intergenerational trauma, and he responded. Fourteen guards brought him down to get him under control, and as a result of excessive force, he lost his life. This evening I asked his mother, “Can I share your words?” She said, “Do you know how it felt having to watch my son lose his life? It was like having an out-of-body experience, watching my son yell over and over and over again, 'I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I can't breathe'.” The chief medical examiner ruled it a homicide. The Court of King's Bench let the guards off. This is a system that is broken, and the result of these persistent cuts and underfunding of vital social services fall the hardest on indigenous people. For example, Iggy Dedam was the third indigenous person in recent years to be shot and killed by police during a wellness check in New Brunswick. Had he been provided with the health care supports he needed, he probably would be alive today. In the city of Winnipeg, Tammy Bateman was hit by a police cruiser driving through an encampment at Fort Rouge Park. Putting aside the gross negligence of the officer driving the cruiser, we again see the impacts that the housing crisis has had on indigenous people, many of whom lack a home they can find safety in. During question period, I asked the Liberal government why the Liberal government is failing to honour its legal obligation to fund health services to first nations youth through Jordan's principle. According to Cindy Blackstock, there are between 40,000 and 80,000 Jordan's principle requests that Indigenous Services Canada has not processed or opened. When first nations children and youth are denied health services they desperately need, they are more likely to encounter police rather than health care professionals when undergoing a mental health crisis, and this is costing lives. This is not another tragedy: This is elected officials willfully turning a blind eye on a system filled with systemic racism in policing and at all levels of the justice system. As the late Cathy Merrick said when speaking about William Ahmo's case, “This justice system was not meant for us.” I want to honour the late Grand Chief Cathy Merrick this evening.

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Ms. Pam Damoff (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs (Consular Affairs), Lib.)

Sep/16/24 9:58:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my friend and colleague for her moving words, for recognizing the individuals who have been killed and for bringing their voice to Parliament. At the beginning of her speech, she mentioned the role that the media plays in normalizing violence. I wonder if she could speak a little more about how that impacts what is happening. Also, does she see any role for government to play in the role the media has in normalizing that violence?

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Sep/16/24 9:59:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of levels to that. One is that it is so normalized, it does not even get covered. The fact is that six indigenous people, within a span of a couple of weeks, lost their lives at the hands of our so-called justice system and it barely made the news. What is making it worse is the extremist, misinformation, alt-right media outlets that perpetuate racism against indigenous people, including with things like residential school denialism. How we get our media and where our media comes from are just as important as what is covered, and the government needs to do a lot more to deal with the growing misinformation and to become a champion of justice. These are constitutional issues that we are talking about. The violation of human rights is so normalized in this country that it does not even make the news.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Sep/16/24 10:00:38 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I always admire my friend and colleague, the member for Winnipeg Centre, for her vision and great advocacy in ensuring that indigenous peoples' human rights are being upheld, something we do not get to see very often, which we all know is part of the reason we are having this emergency debate. One of the things that I keep wondering about is what accountability looks like for these people, for the families of these souls we have lost. What will accountability look like for the families of the people the member named in her statement?

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Sep/16/24 10:01:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I certainly cannot answer what justice will look like for the families and how they will get the justice and closure they need. What I can say is that we have had several major reports, including the aboriginal justice inquiry, the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls and the final report of the TRC. I do not think we lack responses. We have the responses. I hear the government and the opposition say that we need indigenous people to lead the way. We have led the way. We need governments to respond to calls to action and calls for justice. We need a response if we want to move forward to deal with systemic racism in this country.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Sep/16/24 10:02:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, to follow up on what my hon. colleague said, it is very clear what MMIWG call for justice 5.4 says. It does not say to maybe at some point look at indigenous policing. It says, “immediately and dramatically transform Indigenous policing”. I am wondering whether, in her opinion, she thinks that in the nine years the Liberal government has been in power it has done enough to do that.

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Sep/16/24 10:03:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my answer to that is certainly no, but if we look at the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, there are not just calls to government; there are also calls to police. There was a study at the status of women committee, and I asked a chief of police if he could name the calls for justice related to policing and he could not. The onus is on everybody. The Prime Minister has called what is going on with murdered and missing indigenous women and girls an ongoing genocide, yet we get incremental responses to deal with that ongoing genocide. That is how normalized systemic violence is to indigenous people. We can make all these grand statements, but when we want people to ask, we are supposed to be happy with twopence. Meanwhile, our relatives are being killed by police almost on a weekly basis in this country, at least. That is unacceptable.

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Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC)

Sep/16/24 10:04:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to enter into the discussion on such an important issue. I would just note two things before I begin my remarks. I appreciate that there is a somberness about the chamber, a seriousness in which this issue has been taken here this evening, and I appreciate the importance of taking these things very seriously. I would suggest, and certainly I know this with myself as well, that there are many issues on which we will show passion, partisanship and that sort of thing, but I believe this is one of those instances in which we see genuine care and concern. Albeit there would be differences with respect the application of some policies, and we have heard a few of those differences here this evening, I think some of the discussions we have been able to have this evening show the strength of our democratic institutions in being able to respond to this sort of thing and to then reflect on the words. Of course, the blues do not come out in real time, but when my previous colleague from Manitoba spoke, he shared that although a lot of work has been done, it is about making sure that we, and I am paraphrasing, do not just talk about it: The work actually needs to get done. I could not agree more on ensuring that it does happen. I would like to start my speech by recognizing those who have lost their lives so tragically in the last number of weeks. I would like to put their names into the record here this evening, as I know a number of my colleagues have done: Steven Dedam, Danny Knife, Hoss Lightning, Jack Piche, Tammy Bateman and Jason West. I acknowledge the trauma and loss to their families, friends and communities, who are all suffering at this time. The youngest was 15 years old. My kids are not quite there yet, but as a parent, I certainly could not imagine the loss of a child. My heart goes out to those who are hurting. I am certainly praying for them and standing with them as they grieve, and I hope action can be taken to ensure that unnecessary violence like this does not take more lives. Further, I will not go into details, but to acknowledge that in my home community, and these are very different circumstances, a couple of young men were killed in a car accident the other day. I know it has devastated the community. My wife stopped by the school in the small town in which I live today. These are very different circumstances, so I am not drawing a parallel on that, but rather the fact that loss impacts entire communities, and I know that is in fact the case. When it comes to the circumstances we are addressing here tonight, they are not new. In fact, I have had the opportunity, not only my time in elected office but also as someone involved in politics who cares deeply for the community and communities in which I have lived, and as a political staffer, to engage with so many across western Canada specifically. I think of my time when I worked for the Government of Saskatchewan, when Brad Wall was the premier of Saskatchewan, and having many conversations. I will not go into the specifics; I was a staffer sitting in a room with MLAs at the time. After learning about this debate, I took some time to think back to some of those conversations, including hearing from indigenous people and indigenous leaders who shared their challenges and their history very openly, honestly and profoundly, and how impactful that was. I won't get into the specifics, but in a few instances, communities had faced profound loss. I remember specifically a particular instance when three types of groups were meeting with this group of MLAs over the course of a number of days, and one of them was with indigenous leaders, chiefs, band councils and some folks and elders in the community who were very respected. They shared their perspectives on the loss that these communities had faced. We heard from police, both the leadership and some of the officers, very frank conversations, about what had happened and was happening. There was a particular instance with one individual. As a staffer, trying to facilitate things and take notes, and for those in this place who have been staffers and for those staffers watching, it is sometimes a little chaotic for a political staffer, as I know my colleague was at one time. It was one of those moments where the interaction spoke. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Although it was not a picture that was taken, watching the interactions spoke as much as the words shared during the course of that meeting. It was the sharing of how there had been broken trust with authority figures, which were not limited to but included police. I think back to the look on the face of the individual. It took guts and courage that I could not imagine for this individual to come and speak to this group of elected officials and to share her story. I think back to, again, just watching that. I heard those words, and I will not share any of those specifics, but it took profound courage. The call was to listen, to engage and to ensure that, in particular, her voice and the voices of so many were given the opportunity to be heard and that there would be change brought about as a result. That interaction will continue to leave a deep impact. As I have reflected over the last number of hours, there is the need to ensure that indigenous people are empowered and are given the opportunity to be a part of that change. I have the honour and the privilege to serve the people of Battle River—Crowfoot. I have mentioned this before. Battle River is named after the Battle River, which is a small, spring-fed river, interestingly enough, that has deep indigenous history. Crowfoot is named after the famous Chief Crowfoot. While there are lots of places in Calgary named Crowfoot, much of the area where he and his people spent their time were the plains that are now part of the area that I have the honour of representing. I have reflected on this and the rich history and the lessons that can be taught. This will not be a surprise, and I know many members and others have heard me talk about farming, but I am proud to be part of a multi-generational family farm. It is a little too wet to be combining today, but my dad is hoping that he can get into the field tomorrow. We have a number of fields adjacent to some native prairie land, grassland that is thousands of years old. For time immemorial it has been grassland. In fact, the roots of that grass go down, in some cases, 20 to 30 feet into the earth, and it is absolutely incredible nutritional value alone for livestock, for cattle, and, of course, for the buffalo that preceded settlers heading west. What is interesting and the reason I share this, is the profound impact when we look at the sky in a rural area when we are farming, in particular when we are near an area where we knew that it was not that many years ago, in the context of time. We have the opportunity to see the same stars that would have provided guidance to people who traversed these lands not that long ago. In fact, I was sharing this with my children because there are a number of historic cairns in the area that the Spencer Historical Sites Society erected. In particular, there were two cairns dedicated to the North West Mounted Police, which is now known as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I would note that we have a history in this country, and while there is a lot of bad, there are things that set us apart from, and compared to, the Americans. I would note one thing that set us apart was the fact that we did not go in with the military, when that was the story of many of the relationships with indigenous people south of the 49th parallel. Now, I am not saying there is not bad there. I am not saying that at all, but what I am suggesting is that we have seen how we can work together. We look at the history; in particular, one of these cairns is where there was the coming into force of Treaty 6 at Sounding Lake, which is a dry lake bed. It is filled on wet years and dry on dry years. There is known to be lots of grassland in that area. It is quite a large lake, at least for rural Alberta, where our lakes are quite different from some of the lakes we would find around here or in the mountains. Reading this cairn, it talks about how there were up to 10,000 people, the vast majority of whom were indigenous peoples, at the coming into force of Treaty 6, in particular. About a mile from that location there is a cairn that marks some former barracks of the North-West Mounted Police. There is an opportunity to see that as working together. That was seen at the time as a hopeful moment, and certainly there have been many broken promises since the late 1800s when those agreements were signed. We can look back in history. I anticipate truth and reconciliation day, of course, coming at the end of this month. I am looking forward to being in the constituency on that day, although there is not a huge number of flights. It will probably have to be a red-eye coming back that night. However, it is profound, because I took my kids to share some of the rich indigenous history across east central Alberta, and there were two things in particular that stood out. One was Dry Island Buffalo Jump and its history. For 3,000 years, they think, up until just a few hundred years ago, a time that is hard to imagine, that area was a sacred space. There are the Ribstones and the Manitou Stone, which ongoing work is being done on. That stone comes from my area. The reason I share those things is that we see tragedy and we see families that are broken as a result of institutions that are not working properly. We need to show care and compassion, and we need to figure out how to empower those individuals, who have an absolutely incredible history, with an ability to see justice that may look a bit different from what some in this place think it should, in terms of what that looks like, and I had that opportunity just last week. With Police Chief LaGrange in Camrose, along with my provincial counterparts, the provincial ministers of justice and of public safety, I had the opportunity to attend the Alberta Community Justice Awards hosted in the beautiful city of Camrose, which I have the honour of representing. It was interesting, and this was not planned, that when I was asked to speak about this very important issue, I started reading through the biographies of the award recipients, and a number of them are showing how we can incorporate restorative justice and indigenous history, ensuring that there are community-led solutions so we can reduce the number of these tragedies and make sure that victims are supported. One of the tragedies that exists is the number of victims who are not getting the support they need. We look at some of the other major issues that we are facing. My colleague the shadow minister for Crown-indigenous relations, from the Conservative side, talked earlier about the need for indigenous-led solutions for policing. The need for that is absolute. In the meantime, there are contracts, and he dove into some of the details about the tripartite agreements that exist and how there need to be some changes to those sorts of things, to ensure they are reflective of the modern reality. In the midst of all that, the key is to ensure that we are listening to the community leaders, who are truly able to inform us of what is happening on the ground. As mentioned by a number of my colleagues, an Ottawa-knows-best solution is not needed. What is needed is to ensure that indigenous people are empowered. I have spoken to indigenous leaders over the last couple of years, and I know the leader of the official opposition, the member for Carleton, has talked a lot about ensuring that indigenous communities across Canada are empowered. In particular, he has talked a lot about the policy platform in relation to resource development and making sure that indigenous people have the opportunity to benefit, to be the architects of their future, to not be held up by gatekeepers or by a bloated bureaucracy that does not understand the reality on the ground or the customs and demands of local communities and to make sure that people are ultimately empowered. A massive issue has been ensuring that we are able to address some of the challenges in relation to addiction. I am sure my colleague, the shadow minister for addictions, will have an opportunity to speak more about this, but we need give the opportunity in an indigenous-specific way. Each community will probably look at that differently, and that is okay. We should not be afraid of that. The worst thing that could happen is an Ottawa-knows-best approach that does not reflect the reality of what communities need. We need to ensure there is an opportunity, as the leader of the official opposition talks about, to ensure that we can bring our loved ones home. That is a need for every segment of those who call Canada home. That is very needed. I have talked to folks in indigenous communities who want to see that. I know there were examples shared like banning drugs and needing searches. In fact, I made a note that it was mentioned earlier about a particular airport in this country for some of the fly-in communities in northern Ontario. It is a practical solution, which I hope will be acted on. It is something that seems too simple not to act on, although sometimes the “too simple” stuff in Ottawa seems to be the stuff that is unnecessarily complicated. A suggestion was made earlier by a colleague from another party that when we fly with Air Canada in and out of a particular airport, which happened to be Thunder Bay that he was referring to, we have to go through security, like we all do when we fly to the nation's capital to go to work. It was the first time I had heard this, so I will share this with a few different people in the room now. It turns out that there are no searches on planes that go into these fly-in communities when they are not through that particular terminal. It seems to me, and the suggestion was made, that those searches should take place. There should be a basic level of security, and that is something that Transport Canada could simply get on, and hat would help stop the flow of drugs, these toxic poisons, from a centre into those fly-in communities. In the couple of minutes I have left, I would just note that the miscarriage of justice is an important issue, to ensure that we have action taken for those who have not been served well by a justice system. We need to have a system across the board, whether that is the police or not, including in those in indigenous communities. We need to have a court system. We need to have treatment for those who are facing addiction. We need to have a whole cross-section of what the system is in our country. It needs to reflect the realities that Canadians are facing because increasingly, there are tragedies like this that remind us there are those who are falling through the cracks. I believe that colleagues from all parties this evening have reminded us that it is time for us not only to talk about the solutions, but also to make sure we act on them. I would suggest that the simple solution to that is for us to empower these communities because they are the ones with the answers that can truly make transformative change so that we do not need to have these sorts of debates again.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 10:24:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, listening to the debate this evening, one of the things that crosses my mind is that we have the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. As with all other standing committees, there is always an agenda set. There are individuals such as the national chief of the AFN, Cindy Woodhouse, who has always been a very strong advocate for indigenous policing. As well, I know the member for Sydney—Victoria moved a motion at that standing committee saying that we should be conducting a study on the issue. The member opposite knows having an emergency debate is not that common on the floor of the House of Commons, especially on this issue. Given that we are having this debate tonight, would he not agree that the standing committee should look at what has been suggested by the member for Sydney—Victoria so we can actually have that committee deal with what is being talked about this evening? It seems all members, all parties, want to see something happen on the issue. Would the member not agree this is something that should be bumped onto the study agenda? I understand there is a pecking order among the different political parties, but all political parties seem to see this as a very important issue, to the degree that we are having an emergency debate on it. Would he not agree that this should be a priority for the committee given there is a motion before it to deal with the issue?

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/16/24 10:26:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am not a regular member of that committee. I have had the opportunity to be a part of a number of those meetings. It has been interesting because a number of the government members have stood up this evening to talk about all the great things they have done, yet I have an Auditor General's report in front of me that talks about how, while they are great at making announcements, they are certainly not great at following through on ensuring the things they have announced actually result in deliverables. This is not limited to indigenous peoples, but it has devastating effects, as we are seeing here. I hope that member would go to his members of that committee and encourage them to take an approach that would allow for this to take place, and not just to the parliamentary secretary he referenced. When it comes to the circumstances we are talking about here, these tragic deaths, or violent crime in general across the country, which I know first nations are disproportionately affected by, there is a need to take action. Unfortunately, the government talks about action, but when it comes to following through, even the Auditor General says it just simply does not have that follow-through. It is not just Conservatives who say this.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Sep/16/24 10:27:59 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, as a member of the indigenous and northern affairs committee, I would like to confirm that we have studied policing of indigenous peoples in Canada. There have been multiple reports already. We have great reports such as the MMIWG calls for justice as well as the TRC's calls to action. I agree with the member completely that it is time for action, not more reports or more recommendations. There are enough of those. One of the tangible solutions, which we need to remind the House was offered, is for core funding to be given to indigenous policing. It is really quite unfortunate how, for example, it has become a part of a systemic racism that the RCMP is core funded. It does not need to negotiate to the same level as indigenous policing organizations, whereas it is that much more of a struggle for indigenous policing. Does the member agree that that is part of the systemic racism that needs to be addressed so we see core funding being provided to indigenous peoples to police themselves?

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/16/24 10:29:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I use a reference quite often about action being where the rubber hits the road. It is about actually getting stuff done. It is interesting that my colleague, as a member of the indigenous and northern affairs committee, answered the parliamentary secretary's question. It is not time for more reports. I know there are the 94 calls to action from the TRC. I believe there are 231 calls for justice from the murdered and missing indigenous women inquiry. It is time to make sure that action happens when it comes to policing. I will be the first to admit that I am not an expert on the models and whatnot that need to happen, but that is where indigenous communities need to be the ones that lead the conversation to ensure that they have what they need, whether it is funding, institutions or justice supports, to ensure that they are set up for success. I can also share that I have spoken to some indigenous leaders who have said this stuff has to be done right, and it has to be done right in partnership with those indigenous communities because there would be nothing worse than for a system to be brought in that is dictated from an office tower in a capital city that then ends up failing. Imagine the pain and the hurt of not only facing the challenges they face from historical institutions, but also not doing it right with an attempt to fix an institution. Members can imagine the trauma that would be associated with that. To the member's exact point, we need to make sure that this is addressed in a way that actually gets the job done so that indigenous communities are able to be empowered in a way that makes sure that not only do these sorts of tragedies do not happen, but also that indigenous communities from coast to coast to coast are well served.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Sep/16/24 10:31:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for sharing some of the history of the land he represents, as well as the history of the name of his riding. It was actually quite interesting. One of the things I have found very shocking and frustrating, as I have listened to countless speeches from the Liberal government on this, is the way that the government brags about all the money that it has committed. As my colleague highlighted in his speech, the Auditor General's report is pretty clear that the government has spent money, but with no results. My colleague mentioned the Auditor General's report, and he does tend to go through those pretty thoroughly. I am just wondering if he has any further insights that he could share with us about how this is just another case of the Liberals promising while patting themselves on the back, giving an Ottawa-knows-best answer, yet when push comes to shove, there are no real results. We still have first nations communities across the country that do not have clean drinking water after nine years.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/16/24 10:32:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, after reading this report from the Auditor General, I see how it is damning that, while money is being allocated and, in many cases, spent, it is not ending up where it needs to be. I would simply share, related directly to this, but on the justice file specifically, how the FSIN in Saskatchewan has talked about an example of this would be in relation to the parole board. I have had the opportunity to meet with various leaders over the course of my time. Although the Liberals talk about all the great things they do, including in relation to the justice system, the real consequences of what they have delivered is death and destruction in communities. This is not something that I am simply making up or embellishing. It is absolutely astonishing to read the words of the FSIN. It is taking on the dollar question and how that affects the lives of indigenous peoples. It has resulted in absolute tragedy. We have to do better as a Parliament and as a government to ensure that dollars are spent, whether it is for core administration, respecting indigenous communities or making sure that communities are empowered. We have got to do better. We owe it to indigenous communities across the country to make sure it happens.

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Mr. Jaime Battiste (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 10:34:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge. I would like to begin tonight by thanking my colleague, the member for Nunavut, for calling for this debate. Being one of only a handful of first nations MPs who have had the honour of serving in the House of Commons while living on a first nations reserve is something that I am proud of, but I often feel like I have to give context to the lived experience that it comes with, when we are talking about important issues like we are talking about tonight. I do not want to generalize the experience of all first nations across Canada. I can only share what I have grown up understanding and knowing: Far too often, the essential services provided to many Canadians are not the same services provided to first nations communities. I want to share the moment when I realized this, which was at a young age. I woke up at the crack of dawn, like many other Canadians across this country on a Saturday, to go play hockey. On the way, outside the reserve, someone holding a knife covered in blood stopped me and my father and said, “I need you to take me to the police station. I have just stabbed someone in a fight, and I need to go to the police station and tell my side of the story.” Shockingly enough, at my young age, I watched my father ask the man to get in the truck, which did not have a back seat. I was there in that truck, going to the police station. I watched as the man went in to give his report, and then the police talked to my father afterwards. Getting to the rink, I told my friends why I was late for the game, and I heard the shock from them when I told them the story of what had happened. As tragic as this story is, one of the things I always think about is that I am one of the lucky ones. I am from one of the lucky first nations communities in Canada. I could go to the community and see a police station there and have a police presence in the community. Far too many first nations across this country do not have that service. I think we can all agree that everyone in Canada deserves a well-funded, culturally sensitive and respectful policing service. While first nations and Inuit policing programs fund about 65% of all indigenous communities, there are still far too many that go without it, yet our federal budgets have included more than $1.5 billion in terms of money going towards indigenous policing and justice strategies since I have had the honour of being an MP here. However, I really want to talk about tangible solutions. We need to have this debate tonight, but we need to wake up tomorrow with solutions so we can better the lives of first nations communities and indigenous communities across Canada. So far tonight, we have heard a lot of really nice words from a lot of very smart people, but those who have had deaths in their communities do not want words during this difficult time; they want action. Often when these events have happened in the Atlantic, I have had to pick up the phone and call chiefs, many of whom were my friends growing up, such as Chief Ward and Chief Arren Sock, whom I recently talked to last week and who shared the story of what had happened in his community. I heard the frustration in his voice at what had transpired. It is because of conversations like this and conversations I have had with National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, who has told me over and over again, that indigenous policing should be essential for every community. I said that I agreed. With the support of my colleagues, I tabled a motion in April 2024 that called on the indigenous and northern affairs committee to do a study on essential services of public safety. The study should examine how federal, provincial and municipal jurisdictions can work collaboratively with indigenous governments to advance the safety of their community members. Let us not pretend that this is only a federal issue; the provincial governments have a part to play here, and we need them to be partners at the table. However, the study should also look at what obstacles and systemic racism within the justice system are there, and what barriers exist that prevent indigenous people from becoming law enforcement officers. It has been there since April, and I know that there is a pecking order. However, I think that with the events that have happened, we need to start looking at speeding up the study and hearing directly from community members. I believe that the best type of indigenous policing legislation we could get to would involve indigenous voices. I believe that it should be done in collaboration with indigenous people, that we should hear from them. I believe and hope that all parties would give consideration to a unanimous consent motion tonight, or a motion at our committee that would make this the next study on the agenda after the legislation that we need to get through on first nations clean water and the Haida legislation as well. These are important pieces of legislation, but in terms of study, I cannot think of a more important one to our first nations leaders, our indigenous leaders across Canada, to get to than this report on indigenous policing, considering what has been going on over the summer. I know from conversations I have had that we do not need a study to tell us what first nations leaders have been telling me for the past year, that we need more indigenous police officers. Tonight I talked to Chief Norman Bernard from Wagmatcook, who stated that far too many first nations police hopefuls are being turned away. They pass all the physical tests and all the intellectual tests, and then they are screened out in interview processes that provide barriers to their inclusion. I know many Mi'kmaw individuals, leaders in their community, young leaders who were fit enough and who were smart enough, but for some reason, they were turned away when it came time for interviews with the RCMP. I talked to current RCMP officers like Jason Bernard from my community of Eskasoni, who said one of the reasons he was able to become an RCMP officer was that the people who were interviewing him were Mi'kmaw people as well, and that when he went to the depot in Regina, he had a large number of Mi'kmaq who went with him. They supported each other, making sure that they got through this process. Hearing those things, I am asking, why can we not do that today? Why can we not do that now at the RCMP depot? Why can we not do this? I also spoke to Chief Leroy Denny, from Eskasoni tonight, who at one point worked for the Unama'ki tribal police as a jail guard. He remembers a time when every Mi'kmaw police officer in that community spoke the Mi'kmaw language, but that was 20 years ago. Today, in his community, he refuses to sign any further deals with the RCMP, because of the lack of Mi'kmaw-speaking officers and support for his community. He said to me that when someone is under duress, when someone is in a time of crisis, the difference between someone who speaks to their language coming to their door and someone who is a stranger can be the difference between life and death. I support what Chief Leroy has said. I think that we require urgency and initiatives to ensure that indigenous language speakers are given priority in terms of what we are doing moving forward with indigenous policing and training, an entire platoon or squad of fluent indigenous language speakers given the opportunity and the appropriate training to ensure that tragedies like what have happened over the past few weeks would never happen again. We also have the ability to hear from indigenous leaders across Canada in the study I proposed in INAN in the spring. Once important legislation has gone through, we should be getting to that study. I ask all members and all parties that are part of INAN to support that. It is too important; it is too urgent, and we need to move forward. I look to all my colleagues for a non-partisan approach. Let us work together and ensure that we get this indigenous policing study under way and we take immediate steps to ensure that indigenous language speakers are given priority in our recruiting efforts. Let us not let this debate be in vain. Let us look for tangible solutions we can all agree with.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Sep/16/24 10:44:02 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I appreciate the work the member does at the indigenous and northern affairs committee. We have something in common, in that we are both indigenous, from indigenous communities, and I think we have had very similar experiences with colonialism and the impacts of genocidal policies on indigenous peoples. As politicians, we also get to listen to all the politicking that goes on, not just in Ottawa, and how that impacts our constituents in our communities. We have already had enough studies and reports. Part of the wording that I used when I called for the emergency debate is that there has been report after report and recommendation after recommendation. It is time for action. Can the member commit to ensuring with the current Liberal government that we will finally see tangible results because of the actual implementation of the MMIWG calls for justice, as well as the TRC calls to action?

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Mr. Jaime Battiste

Sep/16/24 10:45:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the fact that the member ensured that we had this debate tonight, and I appreciate her work at INAN. One thing I agree with 100% is that we need action, and I have given tangible solutions on what kind of action we could go with today, moving forward and talking to our ministers. I would also state that every single time we go forward on legislation or something else, there will always be communities that will say, “I was not consulted. I was not given the opportunity. I want to be able to share my experience.” We can have a dual approach to putting forward tangible action, which $1.5 billion has gone into, and hearing from those first nations leaders with the tangible results going at the same time. This ensures not only that we are moving forward but also that we are hearing from the people we need to hear from. It is not a colonial approach; rather, it is one that comes from the grassroots communities. We are hearing from chiefs who are struggling with this issue every single day in their communities and are looking to us for help.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Sep/16/24 10:46:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague stressed the need for action, and we are aligned on this. There are countless reports and studies and calls for justice and calls to action. I am going to cite call for justice 5.4 from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. It is very clear in its language. It states: ...to immediately and dramatically transform Indigenous policing from its current state as a mere delegation to an exercise in self‐governance and self‐determination over policing. To do this, the federal government’s First Nations Policing Program must be replaced with a new legislative and funding framework.... It goes on. Here we are in 2024, after nine years of the current government. When will we actually see action on this call to justice?

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Mr. Jaime Battiste

Sep/16/24 10:47:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when we quote studies, it is an important thing to talk about the overall general principle of what they want to do. We heard in what the member opposite said that they want to have legislation. Well, the best way to get to legislation is sitting down with first nations and indigenous leaders across this country, talking to them about that and saying what we are doing moving forward. However, I do not believe it is the case that we have had enough studies, that we have had enough ideas and that we have heard enough. This is especially the case because, as federal members of Parliament, we can do what we need to do, but we also need the provinces to come to the table. We need the provinces to say they are going to meet us there, where federal, provincial and first nations leaders are moving forward with ideas. We need to make sure that the province has buy-in. I have been talking to the Minister of Public Safety, and this is one of the challenges that we have run into. Therefore, I appreciate the member's question, but I also understand that, every single time we go into committee studies or committee legislation, there will always be those who feel they have not been heard. Before I say that we are going to move forward with an approach, I want to make sure that we have heard from those voices. That is the biggest part of making sure that these processes are not colonial and that they are done in collaboration and co-development with our first nations partners. I know we have a national chief who is willing to move forward on that.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara (Vaughan—Woodbridge, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 10:49:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Nunavut for raising this topic this evening. After reading the letter that the member for Nunavut put forward in asking for this emergency debate under Standing Order 52(2), the first thing I would like to say is that I want to express my condolences, and the condolences of everyone in my riding and in the city that I live in, for these individuals who are no longer with us. We all know, as parliamentarians, that life is so precious. Life is very special. As a person of deep faith, if I can use the term, in the context of modern times, every single life is precious. Every single life is to be lived to its fullest. These individuals have perished. In 11 days, six first nations people were killed. That is a tragedy. I even want to add that not seeing the coverage in the media that it perhaps should have received much more thoroughly is obviously disappointing. To the member of Nunavut, I thank her again. I am a member of Parliament from a very urban riding in Ontario that borders the city of Toronto but my roots are in small-town British Columbia, on the north coast of B.C. and Prince Rupert. As the member for New Westminster—Burnaby knows, up in northern British Columbia there is a very rich history, dating back millennia, of first nations people. Growing up, in terms of my interaction with and learning about first nations people and what they have gone through, we did not comprehend the colonialism, the systemic barriers, the racism, the residential schools, that many of these individuals were put through and that the communities were put through. It is absolutely horrendous. Over the last eight or nine years our government, as well as governments prior to ours, has done a lot to work with and build a nation-to-nation relationship with first nations and indigenous peoples. I am very proud of that, but there is obviously much work to be done still. I want to begin my remarks this evening by thanking the member for Nunavut again for the opportunity to discuss this important issue. I acknowledge her advocacy in seeking ways that we can work together to meaningfully address the challenges facing the first nations and Inuit policing program. I recognize, and I do not need this written for me, that the current state is completely and utterly unacceptable. The government has offered additional funding for uniformed officers and equipment, including 17 additional officers for the Treaty Three Police Service, the UCCM Anishnaabe Police Service, and eight additional officers for Anishinabek Police Services. However, we know that we need to continue to work with these police services to ensure our full understanding of their concerns, including where improvements can be made to the program, and collaborate on a true path forward. We must recognize that the funding issues highlighted by specific police services are indicative of our larger program challenges, which is why the Prime Minister has mandated the Minister of Public Safety to continue to co-develop legislation that recognizes first nations policing as an essential service. Important work in this area is under way, and the Government of Canada continues to work with first nations partners. We heard, through the Government of Canada's engagement, the many challenges faced by first nations police services, including access to stable, sustainable and equitable funding. The co-development of this legislation is our opportunity to change the status quo to better meet the needs of communities and to transform first nations policing to a more sustainable model, one that is well-funded and respectful of the communities it serves. While the co-development of a legislative framework for indigenous policing is a key responsibility of our government, it must also be done in partnership with provinces and territories, given their role as regulators and funders in this area. First nations communities, like all communities in Canada, should be places where people and families feel safe and secure. That is a fundamental duty of any government. Every first nations individual, wherever they live here in Canada, in whatever community, needs to feel safe and secure. I tell my residents all the time that we live in a great city. We are safe. We have the York Regional Police department. Whatever challenges we have, we can face them together. We are a great city, a great province and a great country. If we have this nation-to-nation relationship, the first nations need to feel safe and secure in their communities. A properly funded, culturally sensitive and respectful police service is essential for community safety and well-being. In addition, in order to support safer indigenous communities, budget 2021 provided the mandate to stabilize the FNIPP by adding new officers to existing self-administered police services, expand the FNIPP by creating new first nations police services, transition some community tripartite agreements to self-administered agreements, provide dedicated funding for community safety officers and provide dedicated funding for community consultative groups. Budget 2021 provided new funding in the amount of $540 million over five years and $120 million ongoing. Most of that funding is being dedicated to self-administered police services; it will allow the services to add new officers and sustain investments in training and equipment. For the first time, it includes an escalator of 2.75% to help mitigate the cost of inflation. The FNIPP aims to provide culturally responsive policing services, which are being established in many first nations communities that would not otherwise have a dedicated on-site policing presence. However, the issues raised earlier by my colleague are valued. They serve as a reminder that we have a long way to go when it comes to reconciliation. That is why our government remains committed to continuing this important work in partnership and in collaboration together with indigenous communities, based on respect for community needs. While change does not occur overnight, meaningful actions have been taken to date, and our government remains committed to supporting community safety improvements and advancing reconciliation with indigenous people. I can read a few simple stats with regard to the FNIPP: There is $181 million under the first nations and Inuit policing program to support 1,410 officers in over 426 indigenous communities in Canada; $43.7 million for first nations policing to recognize first nations policing as an essential service; $540.3 million and $126.8 million ongoing to support indigenous communities currently served under the first nations and Inuit policing; and finally, $108.6 million over five years to repair, renovate and replace policing facilities in first nations and Inuit communities. We tend to rise in the House and speak about programs, our opinions, the economy and what is happening in our communities. Earlier today, I had the opportunity to ask a question of the Deputy Prime Minister and finance minister, which is always an honour for me to do. It is a privilege to be in the House, and earlier this afternoon, I had the opportunity to speak on Bill C-71 with reference to a piece of immigration policy for lost Canadians. There was a bit of debate. There is unanimity among us, the New Democratic Party and the Bloc Québécois, the three parties there, and the official opposition is on another side, pursuing another path, and that is fine. That is what our parliamentary process involves. That is what debate is about, bringing forth our ideas and sharing opinions. This evening, with regard to this debate, to be honest, I rather wish we were not here tonight and that this debate was not taking place. All of these individuals' circumstances are unique, and I hope there is a full investigation, obviously, into what has gone on. We ask in some terms from economic business if this is a cluster of this. How could such things happen in an 11-day period? I hope that, in the days to come, we do not read about these stories. I understand that these stories do not happen and these events do not happen. I understand there is a desire to bring this to committee and to have it studied. Obviously, for those individuals who sit on the indigenous services committee, or INAN, I encourage them to do the work that a committee does. Committees are destinies of their own domain, as we always indicate from all parties, because more work needs to be done. Indigenous communities and indigenous people deserve better all the time. With that, I thank the Speaker for his attention. It is great to see him. I hope he and his family are doing well. To my hon. colleagues tonight, good evening.

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