SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 336 - Sep/16/24

Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Sep/16/24 10:31:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for sharing some of the history of the land he represents, as well as the history of the name of his riding. It was actually quite interesting. One of the things I have found very shocking and frustrating, as I have listened to countless speeches from the Liberal government on this, is the way that the government brags about all the money that it has committed. As my colleague highlighted in his speech, the Auditor General's report is pretty clear that the government has spent money, but with no results. My colleague mentioned the Auditor General's report, and he does tend to go through those pretty thoroughly. I am just wondering if he has any further insights that he could share with us about how this is just another case of the Liberals promising while patting themselves on the back, giving an Ottawa-knows-best answer, yet when push comes to shove, there are no real results. We still have first nations communities across the country that do not have clean drinking water after nine years.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Sep/16/24 10:32:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, after reading this report from the Auditor General, I see how it is damning that, while money is being allocated and, in many cases, spent, it is not ending up where it needs to be. I would simply share, related directly to this, but on the justice file specifically, how the FSIN in Saskatchewan has talked about an example of this would be in relation to the parole board. I have had the opportunity to meet with various leaders over the course of my time. Although the Liberals talk about all the great things they do, including in relation to the justice system, the real consequences of what they have delivered is death and destruction in communities. This is not something that I am simply making up or embellishing. It is absolutely astonishing to read the words of the FSIN. It is taking on the dollar question and how that affects the lives of indigenous peoples. It has resulted in absolute tragedy. We have to do better as a Parliament and as a government to ensure that dollars are spent, whether it is for core administration, respecting indigenous communities or making sure that communities are empowered. We have got to do better. We owe it to indigenous communities across the country to make sure it happens.

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Mr. Jaime Battiste (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 10:34:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge. I would like to begin tonight by thanking my colleague, the member for Nunavut, for calling for this debate. Being one of only a handful of first nations MPs who have had the honour of serving in the House of Commons while living on a first nations reserve is something that I am proud of, but I often feel like I have to give context to the lived experience that it comes with, when we are talking about important issues like we are talking about tonight. I do not want to generalize the experience of all first nations across Canada. I can only share what I have grown up understanding and knowing: Far too often, the essential services provided to many Canadians are not the same services provided to first nations communities. I want to share the moment when I realized this, which was at a young age. I woke up at the crack of dawn, like many other Canadians across this country on a Saturday, to go play hockey. On the way, outside the reserve, someone holding a knife covered in blood stopped me and my father and said, “I need you to take me to the police station. I have just stabbed someone in a fight, and I need to go to the police station and tell my side of the story.” Shockingly enough, at my young age, I watched my father ask the man to get in the truck, which did not have a back seat. I was there in that truck, going to the police station. I watched as the man went in to give his report, and then the police talked to my father afterwards. Getting to the rink, I told my friends why I was late for the game, and I heard the shock from them when I told them the story of what had happened. As tragic as this story is, one of the things I always think about is that I am one of the lucky ones. I am from one of the lucky first nations communities in Canada. I could go to the community and see a police station there and have a police presence in the community. Far too many first nations across this country do not have that service. I think we can all agree that everyone in Canada deserves a well-funded, culturally sensitive and respectful policing service. While first nations and Inuit policing programs fund about 65% of all indigenous communities, there are still far too many that go without it, yet our federal budgets have included more than $1.5 billion in terms of money going towards indigenous policing and justice strategies since I have had the honour of being an MP here. However, I really want to talk about tangible solutions. We need to have this debate tonight, but we need to wake up tomorrow with solutions so we can better the lives of first nations communities and indigenous communities across Canada. So far tonight, we have heard a lot of really nice words from a lot of very smart people, but those who have had deaths in their communities do not want words during this difficult time; they want action. Often when these events have happened in the Atlantic, I have had to pick up the phone and call chiefs, many of whom were my friends growing up, such as Chief Ward and Chief Arren Sock, whom I recently talked to last week and who shared the story of what had happened in his community. I heard the frustration in his voice at what had transpired. It is because of conversations like this and conversations I have had with National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, who has told me over and over again, that indigenous policing should be essential for every community. I said that I agreed. With the support of my colleagues, I tabled a motion in April 2024 that called on the indigenous and northern affairs committee to do a study on essential services of public safety. The study should examine how federal, provincial and municipal jurisdictions can work collaboratively with indigenous governments to advance the safety of their community members. Let us not pretend that this is only a federal issue; the provincial governments have a part to play here, and we need them to be partners at the table. However, the study should also look at what obstacles and systemic racism within the justice system are there, and what barriers exist that prevent indigenous people from becoming law enforcement officers. It has been there since April, and I know that there is a pecking order. However, I think that with the events that have happened, we need to start looking at speeding up the study and hearing directly from community members. I believe that the best type of indigenous policing legislation we could get to would involve indigenous voices. I believe that it should be done in collaboration with indigenous people, that we should hear from them. I believe and hope that all parties would give consideration to a unanimous consent motion tonight, or a motion at our committee that would make this the next study on the agenda after the legislation that we need to get through on first nations clean water and the Haida legislation as well. These are important pieces of legislation, but in terms of study, I cannot think of a more important one to our first nations leaders, our indigenous leaders across Canada, to get to than this report on indigenous policing, considering what has been going on over the summer. I know from conversations I have had that we do not need a study to tell us what first nations leaders have been telling me for the past year, that we need more indigenous police officers. Tonight I talked to Chief Norman Bernard from Wagmatcook, who stated that far too many first nations police hopefuls are being turned away. They pass all the physical tests and all the intellectual tests, and then they are screened out in interview processes that provide barriers to their inclusion. I know many Mi'kmaw individuals, leaders in their community, young leaders who were fit enough and who were smart enough, but for some reason, they were turned away when it came time for interviews with the RCMP. I talked to current RCMP officers like Jason Bernard from my community of Eskasoni, who said one of the reasons he was able to become an RCMP officer was that the people who were interviewing him were Mi'kmaw people as well, and that when he went to the depot in Regina, he had a large number of Mi'kmaq who went with him. They supported each other, making sure that they got through this process. Hearing those things, I am asking, why can we not do that today? Why can we not do that now at the RCMP depot? Why can we not do this? I also spoke to Chief Leroy Denny, from Eskasoni tonight, who at one point worked for the Unama'ki tribal police as a jail guard. He remembers a time when every Mi'kmaw police officer in that community spoke the Mi'kmaw language, but that was 20 years ago. Today, in his community, he refuses to sign any further deals with the RCMP, because of the lack of Mi'kmaw-speaking officers and support for his community. He said to me that when someone is under duress, when someone is in a time of crisis, the difference between someone who speaks to their language coming to their door and someone who is a stranger can be the difference between life and death. I support what Chief Leroy has said. I think that we require urgency and initiatives to ensure that indigenous language speakers are given priority in terms of what we are doing moving forward with indigenous policing and training, an entire platoon or squad of fluent indigenous language speakers given the opportunity and the appropriate training to ensure that tragedies like what have happened over the past few weeks would never happen again. We also have the ability to hear from indigenous leaders across Canada in the study I proposed in INAN in the spring. Once important legislation has gone through, we should be getting to that study. I ask all members and all parties that are part of INAN to support that. It is too important; it is too urgent, and we need to move forward. I look to all my colleagues for a non-partisan approach. Let us work together and ensure that we get this indigenous policing study under way and we take immediate steps to ensure that indigenous language speakers are given priority in our recruiting efforts. Let us not let this debate be in vain. Let us look for tangible solutions we can all agree with.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Sep/16/24 10:44:02 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I appreciate the work the member does at the indigenous and northern affairs committee. We have something in common, in that we are both indigenous, from indigenous communities, and I think we have had very similar experiences with colonialism and the impacts of genocidal policies on indigenous peoples. As politicians, we also get to listen to all the politicking that goes on, not just in Ottawa, and how that impacts our constituents in our communities. We have already had enough studies and reports. Part of the wording that I used when I called for the emergency debate is that there has been report after report and recommendation after recommendation. It is time for action. Can the member commit to ensuring with the current Liberal government that we will finally see tangible results because of the actual implementation of the MMIWG calls for justice, as well as the TRC calls to action?

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Mr. Jaime Battiste

Sep/16/24 10:45:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the fact that the member ensured that we had this debate tonight, and I appreciate her work at INAN. One thing I agree with 100% is that we need action, and I have given tangible solutions on what kind of action we could go with today, moving forward and talking to our ministers. I would also state that every single time we go forward on legislation or something else, there will always be communities that will say, “I was not consulted. I was not given the opportunity. I want to be able to share my experience.” We can have a dual approach to putting forward tangible action, which $1.5 billion has gone into, and hearing from those first nations leaders with the tangible results going at the same time. This ensures not only that we are moving forward but also that we are hearing from the people we need to hear from. It is not a colonial approach; rather, it is one that comes from the grassroots communities. We are hearing from chiefs who are struggling with this issue every single day in their communities and are looking to us for help.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Sep/16/24 10:46:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague stressed the need for action, and we are aligned on this. There are countless reports and studies and calls for justice and calls to action. I am going to cite call for justice 5.4 from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. It is very clear in its language. It states: ...to immediately and dramatically transform Indigenous policing from its current state as a mere delegation to an exercise in self‐governance and self‐determination over policing. To do this, the federal government’s First Nations Policing Program must be replaced with a new legislative and funding framework.... It goes on. Here we are in 2024, after nine years of the current government. When will we actually see action on this call to justice?

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Mr. Jaime Battiste

Sep/16/24 10:47:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when we quote studies, it is an important thing to talk about the overall general principle of what they want to do. We heard in what the member opposite said that they want to have legislation. Well, the best way to get to legislation is sitting down with first nations and indigenous leaders across this country, talking to them about that and saying what we are doing moving forward. However, I do not believe it is the case that we have had enough studies, that we have had enough ideas and that we have heard enough. This is especially the case because, as federal members of Parliament, we can do what we need to do, but we also need the provinces to come to the table. We need the provinces to say they are going to meet us there, where federal, provincial and first nations leaders are moving forward with ideas. We need to make sure that the province has buy-in. I have been talking to the Minister of Public Safety, and this is one of the challenges that we have run into. Therefore, I appreciate the member's question, but I also understand that, every single time we go into committee studies or committee legislation, there will always be those who feel they have not been heard. Before I say that we are going to move forward with an approach, I want to make sure that we have heard from those voices. That is the biggest part of making sure that these processes are not colonial and that they are done in collaboration and co-development with our first nations partners. I know we have a national chief who is willing to move forward on that.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara (Vaughan—Woodbridge, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 10:49:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Nunavut for raising this topic this evening. After reading the letter that the member for Nunavut put forward in asking for this emergency debate under Standing Order 52(2), the first thing I would like to say is that I want to express my condolences, and the condolences of everyone in my riding and in the city that I live in, for these individuals who are no longer with us. We all know, as parliamentarians, that life is so precious. Life is very special. As a person of deep faith, if I can use the term, in the context of modern times, every single life is precious. Every single life is to be lived to its fullest. These individuals have perished. In 11 days, six first nations people were killed. That is a tragedy. I even want to add that not seeing the coverage in the media that it perhaps should have received much more thoroughly is obviously disappointing. To the member of Nunavut, I thank her again. I am a member of Parliament from a very urban riding in Ontario that borders the city of Toronto but my roots are in small-town British Columbia, on the north coast of B.C. and Prince Rupert. As the member for New Westminster—Burnaby knows, up in northern British Columbia there is a very rich history, dating back millennia, of first nations people. Growing up, in terms of my interaction with and learning about first nations people and what they have gone through, we did not comprehend the colonialism, the systemic barriers, the racism, the residential schools, that many of these individuals were put through and that the communities were put through. It is absolutely horrendous. Over the last eight or nine years our government, as well as governments prior to ours, has done a lot to work with and build a nation-to-nation relationship with first nations and indigenous peoples. I am very proud of that, but there is obviously much work to be done still. I want to begin my remarks this evening by thanking the member for Nunavut again for the opportunity to discuss this important issue. I acknowledge her advocacy in seeking ways that we can work together to meaningfully address the challenges facing the first nations and Inuit policing program. I recognize, and I do not need this written for me, that the current state is completely and utterly unacceptable. The government has offered additional funding for uniformed officers and equipment, including 17 additional officers for the Treaty Three Police Service, the UCCM Anishnaabe Police Service, and eight additional officers for Anishinabek Police Services. However, we know that we need to continue to work with these police services to ensure our full understanding of their concerns, including where improvements can be made to the program, and collaborate on a true path forward. We must recognize that the funding issues highlighted by specific police services are indicative of our larger program challenges, which is why the Prime Minister has mandated the Minister of Public Safety to continue to co-develop legislation that recognizes first nations policing as an essential service. Important work in this area is under way, and the Government of Canada continues to work with first nations partners. We heard, through the Government of Canada's engagement, the many challenges faced by first nations police services, including access to stable, sustainable and equitable funding. The co-development of this legislation is our opportunity to change the status quo to better meet the needs of communities and to transform first nations policing to a more sustainable model, one that is well-funded and respectful of the communities it serves. While the co-development of a legislative framework for indigenous policing is a key responsibility of our government, it must also be done in partnership with provinces and territories, given their role as regulators and funders in this area. First nations communities, like all communities in Canada, should be places where people and families feel safe and secure. That is a fundamental duty of any government. Every first nations individual, wherever they live here in Canada, in whatever community, needs to feel safe and secure. I tell my residents all the time that we live in a great city. We are safe. We have the York Regional Police department. Whatever challenges we have, we can face them together. We are a great city, a great province and a great country. If we have this nation-to-nation relationship, the first nations need to feel safe and secure in their communities. A properly funded, culturally sensitive and respectful police service is essential for community safety and well-being. In addition, in order to support safer indigenous communities, budget 2021 provided the mandate to stabilize the FNIPP by adding new officers to existing self-administered police services, expand the FNIPP by creating new first nations police services, transition some community tripartite agreements to self-administered agreements, provide dedicated funding for community safety officers and provide dedicated funding for community consultative groups. Budget 2021 provided new funding in the amount of $540 million over five years and $120 million ongoing. Most of that funding is being dedicated to self-administered police services; it will allow the services to add new officers and sustain investments in training and equipment. For the first time, it includes an escalator of 2.75% to help mitigate the cost of inflation. The FNIPP aims to provide culturally responsive policing services, which are being established in many first nations communities that would not otherwise have a dedicated on-site policing presence. However, the issues raised earlier by my colleague are valued. They serve as a reminder that we have a long way to go when it comes to reconciliation. That is why our government remains committed to continuing this important work in partnership and in collaboration together with indigenous communities, based on respect for community needs. While change does not occur overnight, meaningful actions have been taken to date, and our government remains committed to supporting community safety improvements and advancing reconciliation with indigenous people. I can read a few simple stats with regard to the FNIPP: There is $181 million under the first nations and Inuit policing program to support 1,410 officers in over 426 indigenous communities in Canada; $43.7 million for first nations policing to recognize first nations policing as an essential service; $540.3 million and $126.8 million ongoing to support indigenous communities currently served under the first nations and Inuit policing; and finally, $108.6 million over five years to repair, renovate and replace policing facilities in first nations and Inuit communities. We tend to rise in the House and speak about programs, our opinions, the economy and what is happening in our communities. Earlier today, I had the opportunity to ask a question of the Deputy Prime Minister and finance minister, which is always an honour for me to do. It is a privilege to be in the House, and earlier this afternoon, I had the opportunity to speak on Bill C-71 with reference to a piece of immigration policy for lost Canadians. There was a bit of debate. There is unanimity among us, the New Democratic Party and the Bloc Québécois, the three parties there, and the official opposition is on another side, pursuing another path, and that is fine. That is what our parliamentary process involves. That is what debate is about, bringing forth our ideas and sharing opinions. This evening, with regard to this debate, to be honest, I rather wish we were not here tonight and that this debate was not taking place. All of these individuals' circumstances are unique, and I hope there is a full investigation, obviously, into what has gone on. We ask in some terms from economic business if this is a cluster of this. How could such things happen in an 11-day period? I hope that, in the days to come, we do not read about these stories. I understand that these stories do not happen and these events do not happen. I understand there is a desire to bring this to committee and to have it studied. Obviously, for those individuals who sit on the indigenous services committee, or INAN, I encourage them to do the work that a committee does. Committees are destinies of their own domain, as we always indicate from all parties, because more work needs to be done. Indigenous communities and indigenous people deserve better all the time. With that, I thank the Speaker for his attention. It is great to see him. I hope he and his family are doing well. To my hon. colleagues tonight, good evening.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Sep/16/24 10:59:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this being my first opportunity to intervene in the debate this evening, I want to start by thanking the member for Nunavut for bringing forward this emergency debate. In her interventions, I heard her differentiate between more studies and action. Specifically, I heard her call out the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action. The government has actually been so slow at moving forward on those calls to action that the Yellowhead Institute has even stopped reporting back on them. If we are going to be serious about this being an emergency debate, we should be listening to what the member for Nunavut is putting forward, which is to push for action that indigenous leaders have already made clear they want to see. Those are the calls to action of the TRC. It should be imperative for all of us to work together to make progress on them more quickly. My question for the member for Vaughan—Woodbridgeis this: What is he willing to do, alongside MPs from all parties, to make progress on the TRC's calls to action more quickly, as the member for Nunavut has called for?

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Sep/16/24 11:00:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is wonderful to see the member for Kitchener Centre this evening. Through you, I hope he is doing well. With respect to how fast the government is moving on the calls to action of the TRC and other reports, obviously we are working diligently with indigenous communities across the country. A number of agreements have been signed, such as the agreement on, I think, Jordan's principle. If I am misspeaking, I excuse myself. A number of settlements have been reached with indigenous communities. We need to continue to work together. It is a nation-to-nation relationship. We need to collaborate and work together. At the same time, we need to ensure that this type of debate does not happen again anytime soon, or ever, and that these individuals are safe and secure in their communities when they call the police or the police respond, especially in a circumstance when there may be mental health issues or other issues at play there.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)

Sep/16/24 11:01:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this is also my first opportunity to make an intervention. I heard the member's speech. The reality is this: He can rattle off some dollars and then say that the government is doing something. The truth is that it is not doing enough. The truth is that the action is not yielding the results. In fact, there has been very little action. We already know that the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls for action is a failure. We also know that this is the case with the calls for justice for the missing, murdered and indigenous women and girls, to the point where people are now asking, “What is the point?” The government is not taking the necessary actions, and we see death, such as what we are seeing right now, in just two weeks, the last 15 days. This is the reality that indigenous people are faced with. My question for the member is this: Instead of saying that we should send this for study at a committee, can he tell us what the government is doing to implement all of the TRC's recommendations, and what timeline will it give for that implementation?

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Sep/16/24 11:03:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Vancouver East, and if I misspoke the name of the riding, please excuse me, used some very strong language with respect to “failure” and so forth. I want to say that I fundamentally disagree with the hon. member's viewpoint on that. Our government has been diligent. Our government's first and most important priority is the relationship with first nations, which is a nation-to-nation relationship. To say that there have been failures and shortcomings, I will be as polite as I can be on that. Our government and the ministers have worked very diligently with first nations people in building this nation-to-nation relationship. It does not happen overnight. This is a system that is in place. What is going on is obviously something long-standing. The issues faced by first nations people did not happen overnight, but over many decades, if not centuries. To make sure we get this right requires diligence, co-operation, collaboration, looking at things in a positive manner and taking action, which our government has been doing over the past number of years.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Sep/16/24 11:04:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to signal that I am going to be sharing my time with the member for, and my colleague from, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. As I rise today to speak to the sad topic of this emergency debate, I would like to recognize the six indigenous individuals who unfortunately lost their lives. Specifically, Steven “Iggy” Dedam, Danny Knife, Hoss Lightning-Saddleback, Jack Piche, Tammy Bateman and Jason West. I want to acknowledge the challenge, the trauma and the difficulty for the communities as a whole and for the families of those individuals. When someone dies, it is not just that the person is no longer there. There are ripples felt through the community as a whole. As I was preparing for this, I took it upon myself to read through some of the obituaries of the people who passed away because I find that is a piece that brings me solace. It is sad. There are kids who are going to grow up without their parents. There are parents who will not get to raise their children. It just bothers me. One of the chiefs I have had the immense pleasure of getting to know is a very well-known elder. The most impactful thing this person, Chief Dr. Willie Littlechild, has taught me is that it is not just reconciliation, it is “reconciliaction”. It is about action, and without action, words are effectively meaningless. He is an individual whom I have immense respect for. This is one of the pieces that really drives me crazy, as we sit here in these emergency debates, after nine years of a government that says this is its number one priority, yet it cannot show concrete action. It can show dollars spent, but it cannot show results achieved. I am going to give them some pointers of some places I think its members could go to if they were interested in taking steps toward this. One very clear step they could take is to explore the concepts around indigenous policing. It has existed since, I think, 1993. In my home province of Alberta, there are three indigenous policing services. There is the Blood Tribe Police Service on the Kainai First Nation. There is Lakeshore Regional Police Service, which actually services five first nations in northwestern Alberta: the Sawridge First Nation, Swan River First Nation, Driftpile Cree Nation, Sucker Creek First Nation and Kapawe'no First Nation. There is also the Tsuut'ina Nation Police Service, which is on the the Tsuut'ina reserve, and it borders on Calgary. One of the interesting challenges with these contracts from the federal side, which are tripartite agreements between the province, the nation and the federal government, is that in my home province of Alberta, they have moved to longer-term, three-year funding contracts that provide more stability for those policing services to make long-term decisions, to hire and to operate, but they have to come, cap in hand, every single year to the federal government with their contracts to get their funding. This has to be done every single year. There are no long-term funding agreements put in place like we see with other policing services. This is a place where we could start. This year marks the 125th anniversary of the signing of Treaty No. 8. It started to be signed on June 21, just south of Grouard, Alberta, and ended on August 14, 1899, in Wabasca. It is 840,000 square kilometres through northern British Columbia, northern Alberta, northern Saskatchewan and even parts of southern Northwest Territories. I share this because I grew up in the territory of Treaty No. 8. This summer, I had the immense opportunity to travel across communities in Treaty No. 8, to meet with individuals, to hear their stories, to really engage and to learn what the treaty meant and what it means to them today. This is one of the pieces where the rubber has not hit the road. After nine years of the Liberal government, we are seeing increasing crime and an increasing severity of crime. We are seeing failure upon failure because of catch-and-release policies that are letting violent offenders back into the community. We are seeing failures as a direct result of the absolutely wacko drug policies that have been put forward by the NDP-Liberal government, which have effectively legalized drugs such as crack, cocaine, meth and heroin in the province of British Columbia. It is pure insanity and it has real consequences. It bothers me because the government sits there and pats itself on the back, showing time after time that it is so proud of the money it has spent. However, the Auditor General has been very clear that the money spent has not resulted in actual outcomes. I will quote some of the AG's report on first nations policing in Canada; it says, “Public Safety Canada did not know the full demand of the program. The department has no application process for First Nations and Inuit communities that wanted to join the program”. There is no application program. The government has no way of knowing who wants to join. That is a failure. Next, “The RCMP did not consistently deliver on its responsibilities under the program”. Furthermore, “First Nations and Inuit communities are signing agreements with the expectation of having dedicated and tailored policing services, but the RCMP may not be able to meet those terms of the agreement.” Then, there is the real kicker: “No information on program effectiveness”. The government has this program. It spends all kinds of money on it. It creates an expectation that it will deliver a service. In the end, it has no metrics to say whether it is a success. We know it is not a success. Crime is up across this country. That is a direct result of the failure of the NDP-Liberal government to protect Canadians and keep us safe over the last nine years. People are scared in their communities, and it is a direct result of failed policy after failed policy. This is a space where we are at yet another emergency debate to discuss people who have tragically lost their lives. We do not hear about any actual concrete action from the Liberal government or difference as to what it is going to do. We do not have a minister coming in here, presenting some big policy plank. The Liberals make promises, pat themselves on the back for all the money they have spent, but money is not going to get them out of this problem. They need to make sure that it is being spent properly. Ottawa does not know best. This is something I am going to repeat. Ottawa shows up and screws it up more often than it fixes things. When I am in my riding and talking to people, they are very clear with me that Ottawa makes more wrong decisions than right ones. We need indigenous-led, nation-to-nation conversations about actual spaces where we could see true reform and reconciliaction. I have had enough of these emergency debates, where we sit here and hear the government patting itself on the back when we are clearly here because there has been an emergency. With that, I really hope we can see some action from the Liberals, but I am not hopeful.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Sep/16/24 11:14:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I tend to say it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people from Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, but today is no such day. We are not here debating legislation. We are here because an emergency debate was called. I certainly did not envision myself speaking here at a quarter after 11 when I walked in here at 10:45 this morning, but obviously this is a very serious matter. Before I begin, I want to recognize another sombre issue, and that is the passing of a constituent by the name of Jim Babcock. Jim was the father to one of my elementary and high school friends Jason and to Eric, and was husband to Mona. He passed away over the summer. I still have fond memories of him supervising me on my grade 6 trip to McQueen Lake. I send my deepest condolences to his family. May perpetual light shine upon him. I want to express my condolences to the family members who lost a loved one after six people were taken. It is obviously very difficult. They were somebody's children. They had brothers and sisters. In this House, I often reflect on people who have passed because I believe that these things should be recognized, as we are doing with this debate, and anytime a life is lost, I think about how I would feel if it was one of my children or one of my siblings. In my wife's family, she has two indigenous siblings, so these types of issues hit home for me more than they did before I met my wife. I can reflect back on my time as a parole officer. That was my first career, when I was only 22 years old. Interestingly enough, I was speaking with a man who is now the Minister of Agriculture. He was actually the Solicitor General at the time, and he was kind enough to come and say hello. I do not think he remembers that he was my boss when I was only 22, but he is still here gracing us with his presence. That was probably the first time I ever learned about residential schools. I still remember that the first person to really tell me about them was a person by the name of Russell Casimir, who I just ran into at the signing of a sacred covenant between the Archdiocese of Vancouver, the Diocese of Kamloops and the people of Tk̓emlúps te Secwépemc. I think it is the first covenant of its kind in Canada. It is about moving forward documents and history. Russell talked to me about residential schools, and that was when I first started to learn about different culture, indigenous culture, particularly about the Secwépemc people, understanding things about sweat lodges and smudging. I realized that when one lives in a small community, like so many small indigenous communities, the loss experienced is so much more profound when there is a loss, particularly a loss that is unexpected. It is obviously that these losses are going to be very difficult. When we have these emergency debates, we have to ask where our leadership is going to come from. I know where I have seen leadership in indigenous communities. One of the people who taught me a number of lessons was my indigenous law professor Paul Chartrand. He taught me at the University of Saskatchewan. There was a lesson he instilled in me, probably in 2006. I looked him up and he is still practising law by the looks of it. He said that if we want to know if something is working, we should ask the people on the ground. That is why in my prior critic roles, for instance, I have gone to a number of jails. I do not need to speak to an executive to hear about how things are going. I want to hear from the people who are actually on the ground, the people who are impacted. Often, we will resort to listening to people in ivory towers, like a minister, a deputy minister or high-level bureaucrat, and we forget that the people on the ground are the ones impacted. A good friend of mine, Renzo Caron, has shown me an example as a lawyer. His mom went to residential school. In fact, I think his sister was the first indigenous surgeon in Canada. People like Kukpi7 Rosanne Casimir show so much leadership to me. The member for Fort McMurray—Cold Lake talked about reconciliACTION; these are people who, in my view, are putting reconciliACTION into effect. A lot has been talked about when it comes to first nations or indigenous policing today. I have had a lot of experience with that. We have what is called the Tk'emlúps rural detachment, which is on the territory of the Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc. Most of the officers are indigenous. Members may say, “Okay, well, how does that impact you?” Well, I sat down with one of the officers. I had asked him whether could we have a meeting. I wanted to talk with him about leadership within his community and talk about politics. How did these things impact him and how could that officer be influential within his own community? I was also fortunate to have another officer, Corporal Jim Toye, come to my class when I taught sociology to talk about what it was like to be an indigenous police officer. Most people here know that I was previously a prosecutor. However, two cases that I worked on are, I think, opposite of the debate that we are having. One was a young girl; she was 12 years old, and her mother was murdered when she was 18 months old, I believe. As a result of that, she went to live with her grandmother and her grandmother's husband, not her paternal grandfather, and she was abused. I will never forget the thank you I got from her after the trial. She testified bravely and told her story. Not only did she tell her story, but she told the truth. I saw the resilience in that young woman, who had the deck stacked against her, to stand up. However, I worry about her; I worry about the psychological life prison that she may be dealing with. That is the reality that so many indigenous people in Canada face. Her mother was murdered, and then she was abused before even becoming a teenager. Obviously this needs to be addressed. The prosecution for the last homicide I prosecuted was, I believe, funded through a program. I am not sure, but the person was believed to be a missing and murdered indigenous woman. She was taken while she was pregnant, while she was at her most vulnerable. It was an undercover police operation, and I think it is important to recognize her. Her name was Angel Fehr. Her family history was difficult to piece together from what I can gather. I still remember the derogatory terms that were used to describe her years after she had passed away. Clearly there is work to do. Angel was someone's daughter, like the six people we are discussing today were someone's children. She was someone's mother. Clearly we have so much more that we need to accomplish. However, I am grateful that I was able to do that. We see so many people, so many young people, indigenous young people, who are victims. With my work in Internet luring, I worry about young people. I will wrap up by giving my deepest condolences to the families of the young people. When I was at the signing of that sacred covenant I described, the theme of the speech I gave that night was about coming full circle, about starting and eventually ending my journey. I pledged to do my best on that journey. I know that I have been able to touch on only a part of my journey here today in this debate, but I reiterate my pledge to do my best.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Sep/16/24 11:24:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on the issue of our Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs, which has before it a proposal to do a study on indigenous policing and to look at studying other issues. The chamber is actually recognizing how important the issue is with what has taken place. National Chief Cindy Woodhouse, who has been a very strong advocate for indigenous policing, wants to see more movement in that area. Would the member not agree that this is a study that is in fact important to see take place, even if there have been other studies before it, recognizing now that we have a higher sense of urgency due to the fact that we are having this emergency debate and that there have been changes within the community itself?

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Mr. Frank Caputo

Sep/16/24 11:25:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the reality is that the urgency that brings us to this debate, the reason we are here, is not simply because we should do one study or we should do this. We should be acting with urgency in all facets of this debate, not just with respect to one study. People have talked about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission recommendations and the recommendations from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. Obviously, six people have passed away and we are here to discuss it. However, we are not only here to discuss it; we are here to make it a priority. To my colleague saying that we need to make this one thing a priority, I would respectfully disagree, because we have to make all aspects of it a priority.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Sep/16/24 11:26:21 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I have been listening to the debate and the questioning by the Liberals and I find it interesting that they are wanting to delay more action by asking questions about whether the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs should study indigenous policing. That, to me, is a very strong indication that this is just part of the systemic racism that indigenous peoples will continue to experience, because that system, that institution, is refusing to act. I wonder if the member can respond to the Liberals trying to delay action by proposing more studies. What do we really need to do to make sure that we are saving indigenous peoples' lives?

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Mr. Frank Caputo

Sep/16/24 11:27:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for raising this issue. I have been here for much of the debate, but I have not been here for all of it, so I do not know all of the questions that have been asked. What I hear in my colleague's question is, essentially, what we should be doing and that the Liberals want to delay things. What we should be doing is listening to the people on the ground. Whether it be people experiencing life in one way or another, clearly there is a problem. We have talked at length tonight about overrepresentation in federal penitentiaries, something that I saw first-hand. We have also talked about the disproportionate number of victims that indigenous groups in Canada make up. If I had to recommend one thing to do, it would be to humble ourselves and resolve to solve this issue along non-partisan lines. I get that committees sometimes meet behind closed doors in order to prioritize, but sometimes we do have to put the good of the nation ahead of the good of the party.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Sep/16/24 11:28:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo spoke about moving to action, about young people and listening to folks on the ground. That is what the TRC was all about. It is what the member for Nunavut has called for us to focus on. Call to action 66 specifically calls on the federal government “to establish multi-year funding for community-based youth organizations to deliver programs on reconciliation”. Is the member supportive of call to action 66 and what is he doing to make it happen?

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Mr. Frank Caputo

Sep/16/24 11:29:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, where I come from, there was, I would say, a turning point when it comes to reconciliation, and that was the finding of the 215, known as Le Estcwicwéy. In other words, “the missing” was the term, and the missing does not just define the 215. What it defines, and how it was used through oral history, is to say there were children who went to residential schools and never came back. In response to the member's question, I am supporting Tk̓emlúps te Secwépemc and all of the other bands, and there are seven or eight in my riding, to the best of my ability. They might be bands like High Bar that have a very small group of people. I try to make myself as accessible as possible to listen and advocate in any way I can, because that is what I can do as a member of Parliament responsive to their needs, and it is for them to tell me what their needs are.

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