44th Parl. 1st Sess.
September 16, 2024 11:00AM
- Sep/16/24 10:32:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, after reading this report from the Auditor General, I see how it is damning that, while money is being allocated and, in many cases, spent, it is not ending up where it needs to be.
I would simply share, related directly to this, but on the justice file specifically, how the FSIN in Saskatchewan has talked about an example of this would be in relation to the parole board. I have had the opportunity to meet with various leaders over the course of my time. Although the Liberals talk about all the great things they do, including in relation to the justice system, the real consequences of what they have delivered is death and destruction in communities. This is not something that I am simply making up or embellishing. It is absolutely astonishing to read the words of the FSIN. It is taking on the dollar question and how that affects the lives of indigenous peoples. It has resulted in absolute tragedy.
We have to do better as a Parliament and as a government to ensure that dollars are spent, whether it is for core administration, respecting indigenous communities or making sure that communities are empowered. We have got to do better. We owe it to indigenous communities across the country to make sure it happens.
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- Sep/16/24 10:34:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge.
I would like to begin tonight by thanking my colleague, the member for Nunavut, for calling for this debate.
Being one of only a handful of first nations MPs who have had the honour of serving in the House of Commons while living on a first nations reserve is something that I am proud of, but I often feel like I have to give context to the lived experience that it comes with, when we are talking about important issues like we are talking about tonight. I do not want to generalize the experience of all first nations across Canada. I can only share what I have grown up understanding and knowing: Far too often, the essential services provided to many Canadians are not the same services provided to first nations communities.
I want to share the moment when I realized this, which was at a young age. I woke up at the crack of dawn, like many other Canadians across this country on a Saturday, to go play hockey. On the way, outside the reserve, someone holding a knife covered in blood stopped me and my father and said, “I need you to take me to the police station. I have just stabbed someone in a fight, and I need to go to the police station and tell my side of the story.”
Shockingly enough, at my young age, I watched my father ask the man to get in the truck, which did not have a back seat. I was there in that truck, going to the police station. I watched as the man went in to give his report, and then the police talked to my father afterwards. Getting to the rink, I told my friends why I was late for the game, and I heard the shock from them when I told them the story of what had happened.
As tragic as this story is, one of the things I always think about is that I am one of the lucky ones. I am from one of the lucky first nations communities in Canada. I could go to the community and see a police station there and have a police presence in the community. Far too many first nations across this country do not have that service.
I think we can all agree that everyone in Canada deserves a well-funded, culturally sensitive and respectful policing service. While first nations and Inuit policing programs fund about 65% of all indigenous communities, there are still far too many that go without it, yet our federal budgets have included more than $1.5 billion in terms of money going towards indigenous policing and justice strategies since I have had the honour of being an MP here.
However, I really want to talk about tangible solutions. We need to have this debate tonight, but we need to wake up tomorrow with solutions so we can better the lives of first nations communities and indigenous communities across Canada. So far tonight, we have heard a lot of really nice words from a lot of very smart people, but those who have had deaths in their communities do not want words during this difficult time; they want action.
Often when these events have happened in the Atlantic, I have had to pick up the phone and call chiefs, many of whom were my friends growing up, such as Chief Ward and Chief Arren Sock, whom I recently talked to last week and who shared the story of what had happened in his community. I heard the frustration in his voice at what had transpired. It is because of conversations like this and conversations I have had with National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, who has told me over and over again, that indigenous policing should be essential for every community. I said that I agreed.
With the support of my colleagues, I tabled a motion in April 2024 that called on the indigenous and northern affairs committee to do a study on essential services of public safety. The study should examine how federal, provincial and municipal jurisdictions can work collaboratively with indigenous governments to advance the safety of their community members. Let us not pretend that this is only a federal issue; the provincial governments have a part to play here, and we need them to be partners at the table. However, the study should also look at what obstacles and systemic racism within the justice system are there, and what barriers exist that prevent indigenous people from becoming law enforcement officers.
It has been there since April, and I know that there is a pecking order. However, I think that with the events that have happened, we need to start looking at speeding up the study and hearing directly from community members. I believe that the best type of indigenous policing legislation we could get to would involve indigenous voices. I believe that it should be done in collaboration with indigenous people, that we should hear from them.
I believe and hope that all parties would give consideration to a unanimous consent motion tonight, or a motion at our committee that would make this the next study on the agenda after the legislation that we need to get through on first nations clean water and the Haida legislation as well. These are important pieces of legislation, but in terms of study, I cannot think of a more important one to our first nations leaders, our indigenous leaders across Canada, to get to than this report on indigenous policing, considering what has been going on over the summer.
I know from conversations I have had that we do not need a study to tell us what first nations leaders have been telling me for the past year, that we need more indigenous police officers. Tonight I talked to Chief Norman Bernard from Wagmatcook, who stated that far too many first nations police hopefuls are being turned away. They pass all the physical tests and all the intellectual tests, and then they are screened out in interview processes that provide barriers to their inclusion.
I know many Mi'kmaw individuals, leaders in their community, young leaders who were fit enough and who were smart enough, but for some reason, they were turned away when it came time for interviews with the RCMP. I talked to current RCMP officers like Jason Bernard from my community of Eskasoni, who said one of the reasons he was able to become an RCMP officer was that the people who were interviewing him were Mi'kmaw people as well, and that when he went to the depot in Regina, he had a large number of Mi'kmaq who went with him. They supported each other, making sure that they got through this process. Hearing those things, I am asking, why can we not do that today? Why can we not do that now at the RCMP depot? Why can we not do this?
I also spoke to Chief Leroy Denny, from Eskasoni tonight, who at one point worked for the Unama'ki tribal police as a jail guard. He remembers a time when every Mi'kmaw police officer in that community spoke the Mi'kmaw language, but that was 20 years ago.
Today, in his community, he refuses to sign any further deals with the RCMP, because of the lack of Mi'kmaw-speaking officers and support for his community. He said to me that when someone is under duress, when someone is in a time of crisis, the difference between someone who speaks to their language coming to their door and someone who is a stranger can be the difference between life and death. I support what Chief Leroy has said.
I think that we require urgency and initiatives to ensure that indigenous language speakers are given priority in terms of what we are doing moving forward with indigenous policing and training, an entire platoon or squad of fluent indigenous language speakers given the opportunity and the appropriate training to ensure that tragedies like what have happened over the past few weeks would never happen again.
We also have the ability to hear from indigenous leaders across Canada in the study I proposed in INAN in the spring. Once important legislation has gone through, we should be getting to that study. I ask all members and all parties that are part of INAN to support that. It is too important; it is too urgent, and we need to move forward.
I look to all my colleagues for a non-partisan approach. Let us work together and ensure that we get this indigenous policing study under way and we take immediate steps to ensure that indigenous language speakers are given priority in our recruiting efforts. Let us not let this debate be in vain. Let us look for tangible solutions we can all agree with.
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- Sep/16/24 10:44:02 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I appreciate the work the member does at the indigenous and northern affairs committee. We have something in common, in that we are both indigenous, from indigenous communities, and I think we have had very similar experiences with colonialism and the impacts of genocidal policies on indigenous peoples. As politicians, we also get to listen to all the politicking that goes on, not just in Ottawa, and how that impacts our constituents in our communities. We have already had enough studies and reports. Part of the wording that I used when I called for the emergency debate is that there has been report after report and recommendation after recommendation. It is time for action.
Can the member commit to ensuring with the current Liberal government that we will finally see tangible results because of the actual implementation of the MMIWG calls for justice, as well as the TRC calls to action?
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- Sep/16/24 11:00:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is wonderful to see the member for Kitchener Centre this evening. Through you, I hope he is doing well.
With respect to how fast the government is moving on the calls to action of the TRC and other reports, obviously we are working diligently with indigenous communities across the country. A number of agreements have been signed, such as the agreement on, I think, Jordan's principle. If I am misspeaking, I excuse myself. A number of settlements have been reached with indigenous communities.
We need to continue to work together. It is a nation-to-nation relationship. We need to collaborate and work together. At the same time, we need to ensure that this type of debate does not happen again anytime soon, or ever, and that these individuals are safe and secure in their communities when they call the police or the police respond, especially in a circumstance when there may be mental health issues or other issues at play there.
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- Sep/16/24 11:01:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this is also my first opportunity to make an intervention.
I heard the member's speech. The reality is this: He can rattle off some dollars and then say that the government is doing something. The truth is that it is not doing enough. The truth is that the action is not yielding the results. In fact, there has been very little action. We already know that the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls for action is a failure. We also know that this is the case with the calls for justice for the missing, murdered and indigenous women and girls, to the point where people are now asking, “What is the point?” The government is not taking the necessary actions, and we see death, such as what we are seeing right now, in just two weeks, the last 15 days. This is the reality that indigenous people are faced with.
My question for the member is this: Instead of saying that we should send this for study at a committee, can he tell us what the government is doing to implement all of the TRC's recommendations, and what timeline will it give for that implementation?
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- Sep/16/24 11:04:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to signal that I am going to be sharing my time with the member for, and my colleague from, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.
As I rise today to speak to the sad topic of this emergency debate, I would like to recognize the six indigenous individuals who unfortunately lost their lives. Specifically, Steven “Iggy” Dedam, Danny Knife, Hoss Lightning-Saddleback, Jack Piche, Tammy Bateman and Jason West. I want to acknowledge the challenge, the trauma and the difficulty for the communities as a whole and for the families of those individuals.
When someone dies, it is not just that the person is no longer there. There are ripples felt through the community as a whole. As I was preparing for this, I took it upon myself to read through some of the obituaries of the people who passed away because I find that is a piece that brings me solace. It is sad. There are kids who are going to grow up without their parents. There are parents who will not get to raise their children. It just bothers me.
One of the chiefs I have had the immense pleasure of getting to know is a very well-known elder. The most impactful thing this person, Chief Dr. Willie Littlechild, has taught me is that it is not just reconciliation, it is “reconciliaction”. It is about action, and without action, words are effectively meaningless. He is an individual whom I have immense respect for.
This is one of the pieces that really drives me crazy, as we sit here in these emergency debates, after nine years of a government that says this is its number one priority, yet it cannot show concrete action. It can show dollars spent, but it cannot show results achieved. I am going to give them some pointers of some places I think its members could go to if they were interested in taking steps toward this. One very clear step they could take is to explore the concepts around indigenous policing. It has existed since, I think, 1993.
In my home province of Alberta, there are three indigenous policing services. There is the Blood Tribe Police Service on the Kainai First Nation. There is Lakeshore Regional Police Service, which actually services five first nations in northwestern Alberta: the Sawridge First Nation, Swan River First Nation, Driftpile Cree Nation, Sucker Creek First Nation and Kapawe'no First Nation. There is also the Tsuut'ina Nation Police Service, which is on the the Tsuut'ina reserve, and it borders on Calgary.
One of the interesting challenges with these contracts from the federal side, which are tripartite agreements between the province, the nation and the federal government, is that in my home province of Alberta, they have moved to longer-term, three-year funding contracts that provide more stability for those policing services to make long-term decisions, to hire and to operate, but they have to come, cap in hand, every single year to the federal government with their contracts to get their funding. This has to be done every single year. There are no long-term funding agreements put in place like we see with other policing services. This is a place where we could start.
This year marks the 125th anniversary of the signing of Treaty No. 8. It started to be signed on June 21, just south of Grouard, Alberta, and ended on August 14, 1899, in Wabasca. It is 840,000 square kilometres through northern British Columbia, northern Alberta, northern Saskatchewan and even parts of southern Northwest Territories. I share this because I grew up in the territory of Treaty No. 8. This summer, I had the immense opportunity to travel across communities in Treaty No. 8, to meet with individuals, to hear their stories, to really engage and to learn what the treaty meant and what it means to them today.
This is one of the pieces where the rubber has not hit the road. After nine years of the Liberal government, we are seeing increasing crime and an increasing severity of crime. We are seeing failure upon failure because of catch-and-release policies that are letting violent offenders back into the community. We are seeing failures as a direct result of the absolutely wacko drug policies that have been put forward by the NDP-Liberal government, which have effectively legalized drugs such as crack, cocaine, meth and heroin in the province of British Columbia.
It is pure insanity and it has real consequences. It bothers me because the government sits there and pats itself on the back, showing time after time that it is so proud of the money it has spent. However, the Auditor General has been very clear that the money spent has not resulted in actual outcomes.
I will quote some of the AG's report on first nations policing in Canada; it says, “Public Safety Canada did not know the full demand of the program. The department has no application process for First Nations and Inuit communities that wanted to join the program”. There is no application program. The government has no way of knowing who wants to join. That is a failure.
Next, “The RCMP did not consistently deliver on its responsibilities under the program”. Furthermore, “First Nations and Inuit communities are signing agreements with the expectation of having dedicated and tailored policing services, but the RCMP may not be able to meet those terms of the agreement.”
Then, there is the real kicker: “No information on program effectiveness”.
The government has this program. It spends all kinds of money on it. It creates an expectation that it will deliver a service. In the end, it has no metrics to say whether it is a success. We know it is not a success. Crime is up across this country. That is a direct result of the failure of the NDP-Liberal government to protect Canadians and keep us safe over the last nine years. People are scared in their communities, and it is a direct result of failed policy after failed policy.
This is a space where we are at yet another emergency debate to discuss people who have tragically lost their lives. We do not hear about any actual concrete action from the Liberal government or difference as to what it is going to do. We do not have a minister coming in here, presenting some big policy plank. The Liberals make promises, pat themselves on the back for all the money they have spent, but money is not going to get them out of this problem. They need to make sure that it is being spent properly.
Ottawa does not know best. This is something I am going to repeat. Ottawa shows up and screws it up more often than it fixes things. When I am in my riding and talking to people, they are very clear with me that Ottawa makes more wrong decisions than right ones. We need indigenous-led, nation-to-nation conversations about actual spaces where we could see true reform and reconciliaction.
I have had enough of these emergency debates, where we sit here and hear the government patting itself on the back when we are clearly here because there has been an emergency. With that, I really hope we can see some action from the Liberals, but I am not hopeful.
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- Sep/16/24 11:24:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on the issue of our Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs, which has before it a proposal to do a study on indigenous policing and to look at studying other issues. The chamber is actually recognizing how important the issue is with what has taken place. National Chief Cindy Woodhouse, who has been a very strong advocate for indigenous policing, wants to see more movement in that area.
Would the member not agree that this is a study that is in fact important to see take place, even if there have been other studies before it, recognizing now that we have a higher sense of urgency due to the fact that we are having this emergency debate and that there have been changes within the community itself?
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- Sep/16/24 11:26:21 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I have been listening to the debate and the questioning by the Liberals and I find it interesting that they are wanting to delay more action by asking questions about whether the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs should study indigenous policing. That, to me, is a very strong indication that this is just part of the systemic racism that indigenous peoples will continue to experience, because that system, that institution, is refusing to act.
I wonder if the member can respond to the Liberals trying to delay action by proposing more studies. What do we really need to do to make sure that we are saving indigenous peoples' lives?
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- Sep/16/24 11:27:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for raising this issue. I have been here for much of the debate, but I have not been here for all of it, so I do not know all of the questions that have been asked.
What I hear in my colleague's question is, essentially, what we should be doing and that the Liberals want to delay things. What we should be doing is listening to the people on the ground. Whether it be people experiencing life in one way or another, clearly there is a problem. We have talked at length tonight about overrepresentation in federal penitentiaries, something that I saw first-hand. We have also talked about the disproportionate number of victims that indigenous groups in Canada make up.
If I had to recommend one thing to do, it would be to humble ourselves and resolve to solve this issue along non-partisan lines. I get that committees sometimes meet behind closed doors in order to prioritize, but sometimes we do have to put the good of the nation ahead of the good of the party.
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- Sep/16/24 11:30:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley today.
First, I would like to also thank my northern colleague, the member for Nunavut, for raising this tragic and pressing issue, where indigenous people in Canada continue to experience disproportionate levels of violence and loss. Since late August, six indigenous people have tragically lost their lives in encounters with police across Canada. I want to send my condolences to the families of those who died. Unfortunately, this is not new. In fact, an indigenous person in Canada is 10 times more likely than a non-indigenous person to be killed by police.
Indigenous people face systemic racism and inequitable outcomes in the criminal justice system, particularly with law enforcement. In Canada, the relationship between indigenous and non-indigenous peoples is undergoing a significant transition, which requires us all to recognize the past and address the harm done in order to work towards a fairer future. Achieving reconciliation calls for a thorough reassessment of various elements of Canada's connection with indigenous communities, such as governance, human rights, culture and law enforcement. We know that colonialism and failed policies are what got us to this place, and we will continue to work with first nations, Inuit, and Métis partners towards a fairer, more just future for everyone in this country.
A fair and effective criminal justice system is critical to ensuring that Canadians feel safe in their communities and have confidence in their justice system. I know that the introduction of federal legislation recognizing first nations police services as essential services is an important step toward reconciliation. Over the last couple of years, we have collaborated extensively toward future legislation with first nations partners, as well as provinces and territories. Our objective is to ensure these services are well positioned to continue meeting policing standards and to respond to community priorities. Three federal budgets, of 2018, 2021 and 2024, outline major investments in first nations and Inuit policing, but we know there is more to do, both in terms of funding and also in terms of the way the program functions.
The RCMP recognizes its historical role in colonization. As the RCMP moves toward reconciliation, this work must be done in partnership with first nation and Inuit communities, including under the first nation and Inuit policing program. The RCMP is engaging with national, regional, and local first nation, Inuit, and Métis leaders to formalize working relationships that will strengthen how they collaborate with indigenous partners and organizations. The RCMP has a first nation, Inuit, and Métis recruiting strategy, with the goal of increasing the number of indigenous applicants and cadets entering the cadet training program. As well, the RCMP is establishing a first nation, Inuit, and Métis recruitment unit and working on the launch of indigenous-language application materials.
Beyond our work on policing, we have introduced legislation to provide redress for those who faced unfair treatment by the RCMP or CBSA. Bill C-20 is an urgent step towards reconciliation with indigenous peoples with the potential to rebuild trust between indigenous communities and law enforcement. Many have experienced trauma at the hands of the RCMP or CBSA from inappropriate comments to excessive force and misconduct. While progress has been made, significant challenges remain. Bill C-20 will help bridge that gap by holding law enforcement accountable through an independent review body, giving indigenous peoples and others a platform to address systemic issues. This bill, if adopted, would help rebuild much-needed trust between law enforcement and indigenous communities, and contribute to a renewed nation-to-nation relationship built on rights, respect and partnership.
These are some of the steps that are perhaps more specific to public safety and the RCMP, but I believe personally there is more that we can do. What are some of the solutions that we consider over and above what we are already doing? One example already mentioned in this debate is worth explaining in more detail. Chief Doris Bill was chief of the Kwanlin Dun First Nation. Doris Bill is a person that many in this chamber know well, and she was chief between 2014 and 2023. I am pleased that my colleague, the parliamentary secretary for foreign affairs, already mentioned her during this debate, but this community safety officer program started as a pilot program under the leadership of Chief Doris Bill. It was really to try to bring a community-based, first nation-led solution to many of the problems of crime and disorder that the first nation was experiencing. A short name for this program might be called social policing, a program designed to address in a very pragmatic way the root causes of the crime, public disorder, neglect and domestic violence that was occurring at levels that were becoming intolerable for the Kwanlin Dun community.
Community safety officer programs will vary according to the community needs, based on an extensive community survey and assessment, and this was designed and developed by Tr'ondëk Hwëch'in citizen and former police officer, Gina Nagano, founder of the House of Wolf & Associates. Community safety officers are people from the community, trained over several weeks in the appropriate skills to be able to intervene in potentially risky situations and conflicts. They may be visiting elders or households at risk. They are generally available and approachable to support the day-to-day safety of community citizens.
As they actively patrol communities, they provide simple support and intervention as needed, perhaps with citizens experiencing crisis and supporting investigations or enforcement, but they can also help link to other partners and agencies as appropriate. It could be a youth in crisis, someone feeling threatened, a lonely elder or a host of other situations that, when unaddressed, could lead to violence, disorder or tragedy.
The CS officers are able to contact and liaise with RCMP, bylaw, conservation officers and others, and they have helped the RCMP in the Yukon, who provide policing services, to build closer and more constructive relationships themselves with Yukon communities. Community safety officers, in short, help to build and maintain trust and a positive relationship with citizens and external partners.
Although it started with Kwanlin Dün First Nation, the CSO program has now been adopted in several communities in the Yukon, communities such as Teslin in southern Yukon, where the so-called “deadly aunties” help to bring peace and cohesion to the community. The CSO program is an example to be emulated and further supported by all levels of government. All of Canada can learn from them and bring similar programs, particularly to indigenous communities, and I invite any interested members or citizens to reach out to me if they would like to learn more.
I could go on. I think there are other examples of accomplishments in the Yukon that have helped to prevent or address violence and harms experienced by indigenous peoples. Modern treaties and self-government is one area that cannot be ignored. Of the 14 Yukon first nations, 11 are self-governing, meaning that these governments have the ability and mechanisms to determine their own needs and priorities and to negotiate in good faith with both territorial and federal governments.
With self-government comes the ability to negotiate elements such as administration of justice agreements, a process that seems all too slow to build but at least enables indigenous-led, culturally safe and trauma-informed justice supports for indigenous persons. I think it is also worth noting the Yukon's missing and murdered indigenous women and girls strategy, developed in 2020 with a full implementation plan released last year. I believe it is incumbent on each jurisdiction to follow the Yukon's lead on developing and implementing similar strategies that, in the words of the Yukon strategy, are “committed to a decolonized approach”, “grounded in culture and community”, “to taking action to end violence and upholding dignity and justice for Yukon's MMIWG2S+”.
I would like to end there, but there are solutions already in play in the country that deserve attention and support and that deserve to be shared widely. Perhaps it is small consolation for the families of those who have so tragically died, but let these conversations help us to work together with indigenous citizens and partners in the pursuit of further solutions.
Finally, I would like again to thank the member for Nunavut for her work and for convening this debate tonight.
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- Sep/16/24 11:39:10 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I always appreciate what the member has to share as a fellow northerner. I think we have common experiences representing people who mostly live in rural and remote communities.
As I have been saying tonight, this issue to me is not just about investing more in first nations. There needs to be more than that. I think part of the problem with each successive government that we have seen is that they have made a lot of promises. Both Conservatives and Liberals have made so many promises to indigenous peoples, and so many promises have been broken. I wonder if the member can share with us a Liberal promise that was made in 2020 by the Prime Minister to introduce a first nations policing law. We have not seen it yet. We are now in 2024.
I wonder if the member can share with us when this party plans to finally introduce a first nations policing law so that indigenous peoples can do their own job to protect themselves.
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- Sep/16/24 11:41:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to follow up on that question, recognizing that the member for Yukon has such a track record here of working with others in the best interest of his community and those he is looking to serve. To follow up on the question from the member for Nunavut from earlier, could he talk about what other MPs can do to support efforts to move more quickly toward the implementation of indigenous policing, in the way that the member for Nunavut referred to?
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- Sep/16/24 11:42:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, only because it has come up on a few occasions, I think it is important to recognize that, when we talk about the legislation the member has just been asked about, the government is actually working in collaboration with indigenous communities to develop it. This often means that it requires additional time. I would suggest that it is time well spent because it is a genuine attempt, in working in collaboration with indigenous people, to make sure that we have it right.
Could he talk about just how important it is, whether it is legislation in progress or other initiatives, that we look at and support indigenous policy ideas and leadership coming from that?
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- Sep/16/24 11:57:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, although today is not a day which we celebrate, given the sensitive topic that we are dealing with.
I have two questions, and my colleague can answer both, or perhaps just one. He was just speaking about policing and moving away from the paramilitary style of the RCMP and its long history. There are a number of indigenous police officers. Is that something that he believes, that we should be consulting with those officers, or should that review come from outside?
Second, the member spoke in a lot of broad strokes with some specific examples, as did I in my speech. If he could do one thing moving forward tomorrow, what would it be?
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